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Author =?ISO-8859-1?Q?David_Z=FClke?= <dz@bitxtender.com>
Full name =?ISO-8859-1?Q?David_Z=FClke?= <dz@bitxtender.com>
Date 2007-02-18 07:46:10 PST
Message You didn't understand what I was saying. I proposed a license for the
_logo image_ that prevents people from using it to sell their software.

Example: I go ahead, repackage Propel 1.3 and label it Propel 2.0,
use the official Propel logo for that and charge money for it.

PHP doesn't allow others to have "PHP" in product names or use the
official PHP logo, and I think that is a good thing. We shouldn't
allow that, either.

And no, Agavi does not cost any money. And yes, I know what the GPL
is. And no, I don't confuse it with the LGPL. Only fools or die hard
FOSS fanatics with long beards and dirty finger nails would use the
GPL for a library.

David

P.S: oh and of course you can charge money for a GPL licensed
software. You just won't find anyone stupid enough to pay you for
something that will then be free for the rest of the world. And of
course, you can dual-license stuff, see MySQL.



Am 18.02.2007 um 10:25 schrieb Pedram Nimreezi:

>> This might actually be a good idea
>> since a smarty policy or a carefully chosen CC license could prevent
>> people from "selling" Propel for money,
>
> I have major issues with that comment, first it aggravates me that
> you don't
> understand that open source enables products to be made that are
> community
> oriented and not software that cannot be sold...
>
> Products are meant to be sold and/or supported. A GPL project is
> designed to counter the ability of companies to sell the GPL code
> since competition
> is effectively diffused when none of them can profit. LGPL code is
> different by nature
> in that it can be sold, it has little restriction except on
> attribution to the authors.
> GPL requires this and also requires the code to remain free ,
> furthermore
> it virally infects other portions of code making it all or mostly
> GPL as well.
>
> Therefore as licenses go GPL is not as free as LGPL which is not as
> free as BSD.
>
> NonCommercial licenses aren't even friggin open source, so I don't
> know where it
> even comes into your mind as a solution, besides if thats the
> solution, well then
> whats the problem? You don't want people to use Propel for their
> products?
>
> That's funny... you use mojavi for your agavi framework don't you?
> You mean to tell me you never sold a copy of your software?
> (NOT THE INSTALL, THE ACTUAL SOFTWARE)
>
> If it were GPL, you could only charge for Install and Support not the
> actual software too.
>
> Firstly, you nor anyone else can authorize the decision to make
> Propel, GPL,
> even if you make every version from now on GPL there will still be
> LGPL versions,
> secondly, I believe you have confused the GPL with the LGPL, the
> LGPL can be
> sold for money- 1 line of code and an include would make it a
> PRODUCT...
> The LGPL is not as strict as the GPL, that is why the LGPL and BSD
> License
> is called "Actually Free" whereas the GPL is called "Virulent",
> lastly there is
> a BSD Licensed version of Propel as well which I am responsible
> for, that also
> can be SOLD... Example OSX remasters Darwin BSD, no where will you
> find a
> BSD Daemon Logo on the Apple website however.
>
> Propel's logo doesn't HAVE to be on my site, but I may want to spread
> its acceptance
> and to that effect I and hopefully many others will as well...
>
> My opinion is that the copyright holder of the image should give
> the propel project
> authority to put the logo on its site for redistribution where it can
> be linked to the
> propel site just like the propel project gave me authority to
> maintain the PHP4
> version of propel because I asked for it and followed procedure & no
> ones worked on it in
> years.
> I also believe there should be more versions of the propel logo,
> different back
> colors, or GIF/PNG and try to expand on that instead of thinking of
> relicensing it or
> any part of propel as NonCommercial which goes against the very
> concept of its
> current license(s). A CreativeCommons on documentation ONLY would
> be acceptable,
> but keep in mind that people taking the documentation to put on their
> site which links
> to propel will only increase the visibility of these sites.
>
> peace...
> ~~~~~~~
> ...pedram
>
>
>
>
> On 2/17/07, David Zülke <dz at bitxtender dot com> wrote:
>> No, it's fine like this. As you pointed out, he's the copyright
>> owner, so the work is still protected (actually, it probably isn't,
>> since it's very likely that it, like many compositions of existing
>> works, lacks the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
>> Threshold_of_originality). He created it for the specific purpose of
>> putting it up free for everyone on the website. Of course, Rob _can_
>> declare a license or any limitations regarding usage, like http://
>> smarty.php.net/copyright.php. This might actually be a good idea
>> since a smarty policy or a carefully chosen CC license could prevent
>> people from "selling" Propel for money, with the official logo, for
>> instance. I believe a CC-NonCommercial-ShareAlike license would be
>> possible because putting the logo on a website or into a product for
>> the purpose of linking to the Propel site or declaring that the
>> software is powered by Propel is not a commercial purpose in the same
>> sense as, say, using CC-NonCommercial-licensed icons in the UI of the
>> application (and that is what the "non-commercial" in such a CC
>> license is about), but my guess is that a laywer would have to decide
>> that, any we'll be just fine without a license ;)
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 17.02.2007 um 03:01 schrieb Hans Lellelid:
>>
>> > On second thought I don't think we need any sort of licensed
>> > release. Rob is copyright owner for the images; that seems fine by
>> > me. David may have some input on this issue, though, since I know
>> > he's been thinking about some of these issues w/ Agavi, Symfony,
>> etc.
>> >
>> > Hans
>> >
>> > Hans Lellelid wrote:
>> >> I have no idea... David?
>> >> Cameron Brunner wrote:
>> >>> mwahahaha, me likey! :)
>> >>>
>> >>> hans: do we need an email from rob saying that he releases these
>> >>> under
>> >>> a blah license for us?
>> >>>
>> >>> On 2/17/07, Robert Bruce <rob@thirddimensi​ondesign.co.uk> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Will this do?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hans Lellelid wrote:
>> >>>> Yeah -- I wasn't thinking we'd change the main site logo. Just
>> >>>> have the
>> >>>> "powered" button; sorry, I guess my note wasn't clear.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ... I wish I still had the vector artwork ... I didn't design
>> the
>> >>>> original logo & well ... it's a long story :)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hans
>> >>>>
>> >>>> David Zülke wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Yay, having ze Propel logo in vector format would be ace. Let's
>> >>>> just not
>> >>>> change it, however. It's genuis. Only "problem" _might_ be the
>> >>>> lowercase
>> >>>> first p, should we decide to have some kind of "CI" in the long
>> >>>> term.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Cheers,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> David
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Am 16.02.2007 um 16:03 schrieb Hans Lellelid:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hi,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I think that's a great idea. I can create a page for that on the
>> >>>> wiki.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'd also be very willing to have anyone with some graphics
>> >>>> experience /
>> >>>> time on their hands to create a logo! (You'll get credit &
>> tons of
>> >>>> appreciation, of course!) :)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hans
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Robert Bruce wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Our company uses propel, we wouldn't object at all. Our product
>> >>>> hasn't
>> >>>> been released yet, but it due to be soon.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> We've done some interesting stuff with using propel to obtain
>> >>>> Smarty
>> >>>> templates from the database, with some extra magic too.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Fri, February 16, 2007 1:47 pm, Cameron Brunner wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Was just curious if anyone objected to a page in trac
>> dedicated to
>> >>>> sites/projects that are powered by propel (purely propel?
>> >>>> symfony as
>> >>>> well?) and/or companies that use propel? Perhaps even some
>> general
>> >>>> reports from users on why they use it blahblah?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Also has anyone got a nice little powered by propel logo?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Cameron Brunner
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Want a better web browser?
>> >>>> http://www.spreadfir​efox.com/?q=affiliat​es&id=182780​&t=1
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>> >
>> >
>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ~
> Pedram Nimreezi
>
> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>
>