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Re: [propel] Fw: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3

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Author Taylor Dondich <tdondich at gmail dot com>
Full name Taylor Dondich <tdondich at gmail dot com>
Date 2008-10-14 12:37:02 PDT
Message Does that potentially mean bad things for the propel project? :)

Taylor

On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Hans Lellelid <hans at velum dot net> wrote:
> Yeah, this is pretty disheartening. My impression is that PHP suffers from
> a complete lack of leadership.
>
> As for Python - come on in; the water is great :) Professionally, I've
> been doing an increasing amount of work in Python (it's fair to say that
> we're essentially dropping PHP at this point and moving future applications
> to Python frameworks). Python is awesome, but the downside is that not
> working with PHP on a daily basis leaves less time (and presents a bigger
> paradigm shift) for Propel & Phing development :-/
>
> Hans
>
> On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 09:08:40 -0700, "Taylor Dondich" <tdondich at gmail dot com>
> wrote:
>> If they rip out that needed feature, I'm going to scream and go to
> python.
>>
>> The problem of name collision is more and more visible as stronger php
>> frameworks come out. They all have horrible ways of trying to cope
>> with this and none of it is elegant. Only a true namespace
>> implementation would help resolve this issue.
>>
>> Now, from the other side, I understand concern when they attempt to
>> use existing operators to pull double duty. Using context as a way to
>> use operators always seems pretty shady. So I understand their
>> concern to get things "just right" with the right amount of
>> performance. But the internals team needs to understand how much of a
>> demand there is for this feature.
>>
>> Taylor
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 14, 2008 at 8:13 AM, Tony Bibbs <tony at tonybibbs dot com> wrote:
>>> If anybody else has an opinion this would be a good time to chime in.
>>>
>>> --Tony
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Forwarded Message ----
>>> From: Tony Bibbs <tony at tonybibbs dot com>
>>> To: internals at lists dot php dot net
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 10:03:05 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3
>>>
>>> This is what I've be fearing. First slated for 5.0. Then 5.3. Now
>> 6.0. It appears there's consensus to rip it out which, in my prior post,
> I
>> was all for if people felt it meant getting it right. Apparently that is
>> the case. I guess my main question is what keeps this from being pushed
>> yet again once 6.0 drops? From the community standpoint we keep hearing
>> "its coming, its coming" but here we are still waiting. Again, I'm fine
>> with the decision but I think others share similar concerns and will want
>> to hear a commitment (dare I say promise) to adding namespaces to 6.0.
>>>
>>> --Tony
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>> From: Stefan Walk <et at php dot net>
>>> To: internals at lists dot php dot net
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 7:46:58 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3
>>>
>>> On Tuesday 14 October 2008 14:10:50 Steph Fox wrote:
>>>> I'm +1 on ripping out and leaving til 6.0. I don't think there is
>> enough
>>>> time between now and the 5.3.0 code freeze to make major changes to the
>>>> language syntax.
>>>
>>> Major changes like ripping the feature that most people are looking
>> forward to
>>> in 5.3 out?
>>>
>>>> Making -> do double duty and adding E_STRICT messages to
>>>> currently legal code really doesn't look like a good option to me, much
>>>> less during a point release and even less during the final moments of a
>>>> release cycle.
>>>
>>> That E_STRICT was proposed for 6, not for 5.3, and is not a requirement
>> - and
>>> about "double duty", it's not really unintuitive to reference to
>> "members" of
>>> classes the same way you reference to "members" of instances.
>>>
>>>> 'An announcement has been done on php.net' simply isn't a good enough
>>>> reason to screw up the language; we can write new announcements and
>> even
>>>> explanations. And we already have *most* of a working implementation in
>>>> 6.0, so it's not like ripping it out of 5.3 means starting over from
>>>> scratch.
>>>
>>> I would love to see the public reaction to those "new announcements and
>>> explanations", so in a way it's a win-win situation for me.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Stefan
>>>
>>> --
>>> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
>>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>>>
>>> --
>>> PHP Internals - PHP Runtime Development Mailing List
>>> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>>>
>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@pr​opel.tigris.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Taylor Dondich
>> Check out Lilac, a configuration tool for Nagios 3 at
>> http://www.lilacplatform.com
>>
>> Check out my Shortcut with O'Reilly Press:
>> Network Monitoring with Nagios:
>> http://oreilly.com/c​atalog/9780596528195​/index.html
>>
>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@pr​opel.tigris.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>
>
> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@pr​opel.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>
>



--
Taylor Dondich
Check out Lilac, a configuration tool for Nagios 3 at
http://www.lilacplatform.com

Check out my Shortcut with O'Reilly Press:
Network Monitoring with Nagios:
http://oreilly.com/c​atalog/9780596528195​/index.html

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Re: [propel] Fw: [PHP-DEV] namespaces and alpha3 Taylor Dondich <tdondich at gmail dot com> Taylor Dondich <tdondich at gmail dot com> 2008-10-14 12:37:02 PDT
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