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Re: [propel-dev] Peer::DATABASE_NAME

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Author Robert Bruce <rob at tdd dot org dot uk>
Full name Robert Bruce <rob at tdd dot org dot uk>
Date 2007-04-04 04:17:52 PDT
Message On Wed, April 4, 2007 12:08 pm, Hans Lellelid wrote:
> Robert Bruce wrote:
>> Hans Lellelid wrote:
>>> Robert Bruce wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hans Lellelid wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Robert Bruce wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I want to reuse the generated classes for multiple databases, so
>>>>>> effectively they exist as part of a shared library for instances of
>>>>>> my
>>>>>> application. However because the DATABASE_NAME constant in the Peer
>>>>>> classes is set to the name of the database against which they were
>>>>>> originally built, I can't (to my knowledge) dynamically use a
>>>>>> different
>>>>>> database.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Well, you effectively can change your database at runtime. The
>>>>> DATABASE_NAME constant is simply an identifier that tells Propel "use
>>>>> the connection info associated with that key in the configuration
>>>>> file".
>>>>> The DATABASE_NAME need have no actual relationship with the actual
>>>>> name of your database in your RDBMS.
>>>>>
>>>>> To change a database name (or any other properties of the connection)
>>>>> at
>>>>> runtime you can use the Propel::setConnection() (I think that's a
>>>>> valid
>>>>> method...) or setConfiguration().
>>>>>
>>>>> Does that help?
>>>>>
>>>>> Hans
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Okay, I understand what you are saying, wouldn't Propel::Init() also
>>>> set
>>>> the configuration? As that's the method I've used. So it's actually a
>>>> DATASOURCE_NAME rather than a DATABASE_NAME ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Yes, that's correct -- Propel::init() will work fine too, unless you
>>> want to change it after Propel was already initialized. Yes, you're
>>> correct this is a datasource name; thank you - that's a better term for
>>> me to use in the future. In fact, we should probably rename that for
>>> Propel 2.0, since this is a cause of much confusion (understandably).
>>>
>>> Hans
>>>
>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>
>>>
>> Just another question, the static method Propel::getDefaultDB is that
>> meant to return the name of the default database or the name of the
>> default datasource?
>
> Default datasource. The only place Propel is actually [indirectly]
> concerned with database name is when it creates the connection. Even
> then, it's just passing the DSN you provide in runtime conf to the the
> PDO constructor, so it never actually knows what the name of the
> database is. (And with databases like SQLite there's only a filename,
> not an separate database name.)
>
> Hans
>
> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>
>

Okay, so like your suggestion to rename, there are a few places in which
this leads to confusion, even the description of the method getDefaultDB
in the php doc comments says it's getting the default database name.

Rob

Re: [propel-dev] Peer::DATABASE_NAME

Reply

Author hlellelid
Full name Hans Lellelid
Date 2007-04-04 04:08:48 PDT
Message Robert Bruce wrote:
> Hans Lellelid wrote:
>> Robert Bruce wrote:
>>
>>> Hans Lellelid wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Robert Bruce wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I want to reuse the generated classes for multiple databases, so
>>>>> effectively they exist as part of a shared library for instances of my
>>>>> application. However because the DATABASE_NAME constant in the Peer
>>>>> classes is set to the name of the database against which they were
>>>>> originally built, I can't (to my knowledge) dynamically use a different
>>>>> database.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Well, you effectively can change your database at runtime. The
>>>> DATABASE_NAME constant is simply an identifier that tells Propel "use
>>>> the connection info associated with that key in the configuration file".
>>>> The DATABASE_NAME need have no actual relationship with the actual
>>>> name of your database in your RDBMS.
>>>>
>>>> To change a database name (or any other properties of the connection) at
>>>> runtime you can use the Propel::setConnection() (I think that's a valid
>>>> method...) or setConfiguration().
>>>>
>>>> Does that help?
>>>>
>>>> Hans
>>>>
>>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Okay, I understand what you are saying, wouldn't Propel::Init() also set
>>> the configuration? As that's the method I've used. So it's actually a
>>> DATASOURCE_NAME rather than a DATABASE_NAME ?
>>>
>>>
>> Yes, that's correct -- Propel::init() will work fine too, unless you
>> want to change it after Propel was already initialized. Yes, you're
>> correct this is a datasource name; thank you - that's a better term for
>> me to use in the future. In fact, we should probably rename that for
>> Propel 2.0, since this is a cause of much confusion (understandably).
>>
>> Hans
>>
>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>
>>
> Just another question, the static method Propel::getDefaultDB is that
> meant to return the name of the default database or the name of the
> default datasource?

Default datasource. The only place Propel is actually [indirectly]
concerned with database name is when it creates the connection. Even
then, it's just passing the DSN you provide in runtime conf to the the
PDO constructor, so it never actually knows what the name of the
database is. (And with databases like SQLite there's only a filename,
not an separate database name.)

Hans

Re: [propel-dev] Peer::DATABASE_NAME

Reply

Author Robert Bruce <rob at thirddimensiondesign dot co dot uk>
Full name Robert Bruce <rob at thirddimensiondesign dot co dot uk>
Date 2007-04-03 17:36:33 PDT
Message Hans Lellelid wrote:
> Robert Bruce wrote:
>
>> Hans Lellelid wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Robert Bruce wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I want to reuse the generated classes for multiple databases, so
>>>> effectively they exist as part of a shared library for instances of my
>>>> application. However because the DATABASE_NAME constant in the Peer
>>>> classes is set to the name of the database against which they were
>>>> originally built, I can't (to my knowledge) dynamically use a different
>>>> database.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Well, you effectively can change your database at runtime. The
>>> DATABASE_NAME constant is simply an identifier that tells Propel "use
>>> the connection info associated with that key in the configuration file".
>>> The DATABASE_NAME need have no actual relationship with the actual
>>> name of your database in your RDBMS.
>>>
>>> To change a database name (or any other properties of the connection) at
>>> runtime you can use the Propel::setConnection() (I think that's a valid
>>> method...) or setConfiguration().
>>>
>>> Does that help?
>>>
>>> Hans
>>>
>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Okay, I understand what you are saying, wouldn't Propel::Init() also set
>> the configuration? As that's the method I've used. So it's actually a
>> DATASOURCE_NAME rather than a DATABASE_NAME ?
>>
>>
> Yes, that's correct -- Propel::init() will work fine too, unless you
> want to change it after Propel was already initialized. Yes, you're
> correct this is a datasource name; thank you - that's a better term for
> me to use in the future. In fact, we should probably rename that for
> Propel 2.0, since this is a cause of much confusion (understandably).
>
> Hans
>
> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>
>
Just another question, the static method Propel::getDefaultDB is that
meant to return the name of the default database or the name of the
default datasource?

Re: [propel-dev] Peer::DATABASE_NAME

Reply

Author hlellelid
Full name Hans Lellelid
Date 2007-04-03 16:11:17 PDT
Message Robert Bruce wrote:
> Hans Lellelid wrote:
>
>> Robert Bruce wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I want to reuse the generated classes for multiple databases, so
>>> effectively they exist as part of a shared library for instances of my
>>> application. However because the DATABASE_NAME constant in the Peer
>>> classes is set to the name of the database against which they were
>>> originally built, I can't (to my knowledge) dynamically use a different
>>> database.
>>>
>>>
>> Well, you effectively can change your database at runtime. The
>> DATABASE_NAME constant is simply an identifier that tells Propel "use
>> the connection info associated with that key in the configuration file".
>> The DATABASE_NAME need have no actual relationship with the actual
>> name of your database in your RDBMS.
>>
>> To change a database name (or any other properties of the connection) at
>> runtime you can use the Propel::setConnection() (I think that's a valid
>> method...) or setConfiguration().
>>
>> Does that help?
>>
>> Hans
>>
>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>
>>
>>
> Okay, I understand what you are saying, wouldn't Propel::Init() also set
> the configuration? As that's the method I've used. So it's actually a
> DATASOURCE_NAME rather than a DATABASE_NAME ?
>
Yes, that's correct -- Propel::init() will work fine too, unless you
want to change it after Propel was already initialized. Yes, you're
correct this is a datasource name; thank you - that's a better term for
me to use in the future. In fact, we should probably rename that for
Propel 2.0, since this is a cause of much confusion (understandably).

Hans

Re: [propel-dev] Peer::DATABASE_NAME

Reply

Author Robert Bruce <rob at thirddimensiondesign dot co dot uk>
Full name Robert Bruce <rob at thirddimensiondesign dot co dot uk>
Date 2007-04-03 16:06:16 PDT
Message Hans Lellelid wrote:
> Robert Bruce wrote:
>
>> I want to reuse the generated classes for multiple databases, so
>> effectively they exist as part of a shared library for instances of my
>> application. However because the DATABASE_NAME constant in the Peer
>> classes is set to the name of the database against which they were
>> originally built, I can't (to my knowledge) dynamically use a different
>> database.
>>
>
> Well, you effectively can change your database at runtime. The
> DATABASE_NAME constant is simply an identifier that tells Propel "use
> the connection info associated with that key in the configuration file".
> The DATABASE_NAME need have no actual relationship with the actual
> name of your database in your RDBMS.
>
> To change a database name (or any other properties of the connection) at
> runtime you can use the Propel::setConnection() (I think that's a valid
> method...) or setConfiguration().
>
> Does that help?
>
> Hans
>
> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>
>
Okay, I understand what you are saying, wouldn't Propel::Init() also set
the configuration? As that's the method I've used. So it's actually a
DATASOURCE_NAME rather than a DATABASE_NAME ?

Re: [propel-dev] Peer::DATABASE_NAME

Reply

Author hlellelid
Full name Hans Lellelid
Date 2007-04-03 15:52:30 PDT
Message Robert Bruce wrote:
> I want to reuse the generated classes for multiple databases, so
> effectively they exist as part of a shared library for instances of my
> application. However because the DATABASE_NAME constant in the Peer
> classes is set to the name of the database against which they were
> originally built, I can't (to my knowledge) dynamically use a different
> database.

Well, you effectively can change your database at runtime. The
DATABASE_NAME constant is simply an identifier that tells Propel "use
the connection info associated with that key in the configuration file".
  The DATABASE_NAME need have no actual relationship with the actual
name of your database in your RDBMS.

To change a database name (or any other properties of the connection) at
runtime you can use the Propel::setConnection() (I think that's a valid
method...) or setConfiguration().

Does that help?

Hans

Peer::DATABASE_NAME

Reply

Author Robert Bruce <rob at thirddimensiondesign dot co dot uk>
Full name Robert Bruce <rob at thirddimensiondesign dot co dot uk>
Date 2007-04-03 15:34:34 PDT
Message I recently came up against something that was causing a problem, I may
have been doing this incorrectly, so please correct me if that's the case.

I want to reuse the generated classes for multiple databases, so
effectively they exist as part of a shared library for instances of my
application. However because the DATABASE_NAME constant in the Peer
classes is set to the name of the database against which they were
originally built, I can't (to my knowledge) dynamically use a different
database.

I have created a static method getDatabaseName which reads the
Propel::getConfiguration, then have gone through all the code in the
engine/builder/om/php5 replacing ::DATABASE_NAME with
::getDatabaseName(). Everything seems to be working fine now, but is
there another way I could have done this?

Rob
Attachments

Re: [propel-dev] Powered by propel?

Reply

Author hlellelid
Full name Hans Lellelid
Date 2007-02-26 04:12:32 PST
Message After sending my note & re-reading your post, I realize you're asking
for *questions* not answers :)

I think we can just ask users list for any general feedback about Propel
that they'd like to have quoted for our powered-by-propel page. That's
pretty standard approach, I think.

Hans

Hans Lellelid wrote:
> Hi Cameron,
>
> This is probably a better question for users list. I think that we
> should setup the page, though; I was going to finish that today w/ logos
> unless you want to do it.
>
> My only suggestion on the actual wiki page is to consolidate it to a
> single page for now; if we get more content (case-studies, etc.) later,
> we can expand it to multiple pages.
>
> Hans
>
> Cameron Brunner wrote:
>> Poke to the list to see if anyone else has some questions they'd like
>> to see asked of people using propel?
>>
>> On 2/17/07, Cameron Brunner <cameron.brunner@​gmail.com> wrote:
>>> http://propel.phpdb.​org/trac/wiki/Propel​led
>>>
>>> opinions? need more questions probably... also how will we sort sites
>>> on the list?
>>>
>>> On 2/17/07, Hans Lellelid <hans at velum dot net> wrote:
>>> > On second thought I don't think we need any sort of licensed release.
>>> > Rob is copyright owner for the images; that seems fine by me.
>>> David may
>>> > have some input on this issue, though, since I know he's been thinking
>>> > about some of these issues w/ Agavi, Symfony, etc.
>>> >
>>> > Hans
>>> >
>>> > Hans Lellelid wrote:
>>> > > I have no idea... David?
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Cameron Brunner wrote:
>>> > >> mwahahaha, me likey! :)
>>> > >>
>>> > >> hans: do we need an email from rob saying that he releases these
>>> under
>>> > >> a blah license for us?
>>> > >>
>>> > >> On 2/17/07, Robert Bruce <rob@thirddimensi​ondesign.co.uk> wrote:
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Will this do?
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Hans Lellelid wrote:
>>> > >>> Yeah -- I wasn't thinking we'd change the main site logo. Just
>>> have the
>>> > >>> "powered" button; sorry, I guess my note wasn't clear.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> ... I wish I still had the vector artwork ... I didn't design the
>>> > >>> original logo & well ... it's a long story :)
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Hans
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> David Zülke wrote:
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Yay, having ze Propel logo in vector format would be ace.
>>> Let's just
>>> > >>> not
>>> > >>> change it, however. It's genuis. Only "problem" _might_ be the
>>> lowercase
>>> > >>> first p, should we decide to have some kind of "CI" in the long
>>> term.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Cheers,
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> David
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Am 16.02.2007 um 16:03 schrieb Hans Lellelid:
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Hi,
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> I think that's a great idea. I can create a page for that on
>>> the wiki.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> I'd also be very willing to have anyone with some graphics
>>> experience /
>>> > >>> time on their hands to create a logo! (You'll get credit & tons of
>>> > >>> appreciation, of course!) :)
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Hans
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Robert Bruce wrote:
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Our company uses propel, we wouldn't object at all. Our
>>> product hasn't
>>> > >>> been released yet, but it due to be soon.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> We've done some interesting stuff with using propel to obtain
>>> Smarty
>>> > >>> templates from the database, with some extra magic too.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> On Fri, February 16, 2007 1:47 pm, Cameron Brunner wrote:
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Was just curious if anyone objected to a page in trac
>>> dedicated to
>>> > >>> sites/projects that are powered by propel (purely propel?
>>> symfony as
>>> > >>> well?) and/or companies that use propel? Perhaps even some general
>>> > >>> reports from users on why they use it blahblah?
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Also has anyone got a nice little powered by propel logo?
>>> > >>>
>>
>
> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>

Re: [propel-dev] Powered by propel?

Reply

Author hlellelid
Full name Hans Lellelid
Date 2007-02-26 04:10:47 PST
Message Hi Cameron,

This is probably a better question for users list. I think that we
should setup the page, though; I was going to finish that today w/ logos
unless you want to do it.

My only suggestion on the actual wiki page is to consolidate it to a
single page for now; if we get more content (case-studies, etc.) later,
we can expand it to multiple pages.

Hans

Cameron Brunner wrote:
> Poke to the list to see if anyone else has some questions they'd like
> to see asked of people using propel?
>
> On 2/17/07, Cameron Brunner <cameron.brunner@​gmail.com> wrote:
>> http://propel.phpdb.​org/trac/wiki/Propel​led
>>
>> opinions? need more questions probably... also how will we sort sites
>> on the list?
>>
>> On 2/17/07, Hans Lellelid <hans at velum dot net> wrote:
>> > On second thought I don't think we need any sort of licensed release.
>> > Rob is copyright owner for the images; that seems fine by me. David
>> may
>> > have some input on this issue, though, since I know he's been thinking
>> > about some of these issues w/ Agavi, Symfony, etc.
>> >
>> > Hans
>> >
>> > Hans Lellelid wrote:
>> > > I have no idea... David?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Cameron Brunner wrote:
>> > >> mwahahaha, me likey! :)
>> > >>
>> > >> hans: do we need an email from rob saying that he releases these
>> under
>> > >> a blah license for us?
>> > >>
>> > >> On 2/17/07, Robert Bruce <rob@thirddimensi​ondesign.co.uk> wrote:
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Will this do?
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Hans Lellelid wrote:
>> > >>> Yeah -- I wasn't thinking we'd change the main site logo. Just
>> have the
>> > >>> "powered" button; sorry, I guess my note wasn't clear.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> ... I wish I still had the vector artwork ... I didn't design the
>> > >>> original logo & well ... it's a long story :)
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Hans
>> > >>>
>> > >>> David Zülke wrote:
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Yay, having ze Propel logo in vector format would be ace. Let's
>> just
>> > >>> not
>> > >>> change it, however. It's genuis. Only "problem" _might_ be the
>> lowercase
>> > >>> first p, should we decide to have some kind of "CI" in the long
>> term.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Cheers,
>> > >>>
>> > >>> David
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Am 16.02.2007 um 16:03 schrieb Hans Lellelid:
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Hi,
>> > >>>
>> > >>> I think that's a great idea. I can create a page for that on the
>> wiki.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> I'd also be very willing to have anyone with some graphics
>> experience /
>> > >>> time on their hands to create a logo! (You'll get credit & tons of
>> > >>> appreciation, of course!) :)
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Hans
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Robert Bruce wrote:
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Our company uses propel, we wouldn't object at all. Our product
>> hasn't
>> > >>> been released yet, but it due to be soon.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> We've done some interesting stuff with using propel to obtain
>> Smarty
>> > >>> templates from the database, with some extra magic too.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> On Fri, February 16, 2007 1:47 pm, Cameron Brunner wrote:
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Was just curious if anyone objected to a page in trac dedicated to
>> > >>> sites/projects that are powered by propel (purely propel?
>> symfony as
>> > >>> well?) and/or companies that use propel? Perhaps even some general
>> > >>> reports from users on why they use it blahblah?
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Also has anyone got a nice little powered by propel logo?
>> > >>>
>

Re: [propel-dev] Powered by propel?

Reply

Author Cameron Brunner <cameron dot brunner at gmail dot com>
Full name Cameron Brunner <cameron dot brunner at gmail dot com>
Date 2007-02-25 19:47:15 PST
Message Poke to the list to see if anyone else has some questions they'd like
to see asked of people using propel?

On 2/17/07, Cameron Brunner <cameron.brunner@​gmail.com> wrote:
> http://propel.phpdb.​org/trac/wiki/Propel​led
>
> opinions? need more questions probably... also how will we sort sites
> on the list?
>
> On 2/17/07, Hans Lellelid <hans at velum dot net> wrote:
> > On second thought I don't think we need any sort of licensed release.
> > Rob is copyright owner for the images; that seems fine by me. David may
> > have some input on this issue, though, since I know he's been thinking
> > about some of these issues w/ Agavi, Symfony, etc.
> >
> > Hans
> >
> > Hans Lellelid wrote:
> > > I have no idea... David?
> > >
> > >
> > > Cameron Brunner wrote:
> > >> mwahahaha, me likey! :)
> > >>
> > >> hans: do we need an email from rob saying that he releases these under
> > >> a blah license for us?
> > >>
> > >> On 2/17/07, Robert Bruce <rob@thirddimensi​ondesign.co.uk> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Will this do?
> > >>>
> > >>> Hans Lellelid wrote:
> > >>> Yeah -- I wasn't thinking we'd change the main site logo. Just have the
> > >>> "powered" button; sorry, I guess my note wasn't clear.
> > >>>
> > >>> ... I wish I still had the vector artwork ... I didn't design the
> > >>> original logo & well ... it's a long story :)
> > >>>
> > >>> Hans
> > >>>
> > >>> David Zülke wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Yay, having ze Propel logo in vector format would be ace. Let's just
> > >>> not
> > >>> change it, however. It's genuis. Only "problem" _might_ be the lowercase
> > >>> first p, should we decide to have some kind of "CI" in the long term.
> > >>>
> > >>> Cheers,
> > >>>
> > >>> David
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Am 16.02.2007 um 16:03 schrieb Hans Lellelid:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Hi,
> > >>>
> > >>> I think that's a great idea. I can create a page for that on the wiki.
> > >>>
> > >>> I'd also be very willing to have anyone with some graphics experience /
> > >>> time on their hands to create a logo! (You'll get credit & tons of
> > >>> appreciation, of course!) :)
> > >>>
> > >>> Hans
> > >>>
> > >>> Robert Bruce wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Our company uses propel, we wouldn't object at all. Our product hasn't
> > >>> been released yet, but it due to be soon.
> > >>>
> > >>> We've done some interesting stuff with using propel to obtain Smarty
> > >>> templates from the database, with some extra magic too.
> > >>>
> > >>> On Fri, February 16, 2007 1:47 pm, Cameron Brunner wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Was just curious if anyone objected to a page in trac dedicated to
> > >>> sites/projects that are powered by propel (purely propel? symfony as
> > >>> well?) and/or companies that use propel? Perhaps even some general
> > >>> reports from users on why they use it blahblah?
> > >>>
> > >>> Also has anyone got a nice little powered by propel logo?
> > >>>

--
Cameron Brunner

Want a better web browser?
http://www.spreadfir​efox.com/?q=affiliat​es&id=182780​&t=1

Re: [propel-dev] Powered by propel?

Reply

Author Pedram Nimreezi <zenstyle at gmail dot com>
Full name Pedram Nimreezi <zenstyle at gmail dot com>
Date 2007-02-18 14:05:44 PST
Message +1, I think the propel logo looks great... and thanks for clearing
that up David.

I'm interested to know though what will be the restrictions on the
logo, for instance
is it only allowed to be used with a link to the propel site? will it
be permissable to
use it to describe functionality present in another open source software? etc.

ps. just to give an idea of how to many people use the name propel,
simply google it,
     "intitle:propel" yields only 114,000 or so results ;)

... pedram

On 2/18/07, Hans Lellelid <hans at velum dot net> wrote:
> Ok, I understand. Yes, I guess that's what I was trying to describe by
> mentioning the "branded" form. Anyway .... I should think we're fine
> with Rob being copyright holder of the logo in question, right?
>
> :) Hans
>
> David Zülke wrote:
> > I'm fine with people charging money for a Propel download. Well I'm not
> > fine with that, since it would mean some people would get ripped off,
> > but the license allows it. I was just saying that I don't want to see
> > people using the Propel name and the Propel logo for such a product.
> > PHP, Apache, Python, Smarty etc don't allow that either. See
> > http://httpd.apache.​org/docs/2.2/faq/bac​kground.html#backgro​und.logo for
> > instance (last section).
> >

Re: [propel-dev] Powered by propel?

Reply

Author hlellelid
Full name Hans Lellelid
Date 2007-02-18 11:33:51 PST
Message Ok, I understand. Yes, I guess that's what I was trying to describe by
mentioning the "branded" form. Anyway .... I should think we're fine
with Rob being copyright holder of the logo in question, right?

:) Hans

David Zülke wrote:
> I'm fine with people charging money for a Propel download. Well I'm not
> fine with that, since it would mean some people would get ripped off,
> but the license allows it. I was just saying that I don't want to see
> people using the Propel name and the Propel logo for such a product.
> PHP, Apache, Python, Smarty etc don't allow that either. See
> http://httpd.apache.​org/docs/2.2/faq/bac​kground.html#backgro​und.logo for
> instance (last section).
>
>
> David
>
>
>
> Am 18.02.2007 um 15:55 schrieb Hans Lellelid:
>
>> Let me interject a few things before this spirals out of control :)
>>
>> First off, I think I can identify with David's sentiments here; while
>> Propel is open-source, I think that we'd all feel a bit insulted/scammed
>> if anyone was charging people to download Propel in its open-source
>> branded form. That said, I don't any of us would be all that upset if
>> people were putting Propel on a CD, printing out a manual, and selling
>> the whole thing -- or, more likely, putting Propel on a CD with a bunch
>> of other open-source software and selling the whole thing with a
>> magazine).
>>
>> On the other hand, I believe in open-source software and believe it
>> should be free -- and of course part of that freedom is in allowing
>> people to do what they wish with it, even if that be something that
>> might make me feel a little "scammed" like charging for a download. Of
>> course, I do personally believe in some obligation in open-source; I
>> like the LGPL because it gives leverage to the developers who want to
>> submit back improvements (I really believe everyone wants to contribute
>> code, and I feel like the LGPL gives people a justification in asking
>> people who pay their paycheck to honor that & allow them to submit back
>> code modifications/improvements).
>>
>> I don't see your point about the GPL not allowing people to sell
>> software for money. I agree that it may not make much sense, since my
>> understanding is that it can be distributed for free by the receiving
>> party, but I believe the ability to sell is built-in to the GPL:
>> http://www.gnu.org/l​icenses/gpl-faq.html​#DoesTheGPLAllowMone​y
>>
>> So, ultimately, I agree that we don't need to discourage people from
>> making money by selling, in some for or other, the Propel product. In
>> fact, selling Propel would be a good thing for the project. I do think
>> it's good to think about copyright issues when people contribute work -
>> like logos, etc. - but this is not something that is contributing to
>> keeping me awake at night :)
>>
>> I don't ever want to get into some sort of copyright battle over Propel
>> logo, name, etc. We've certainly have lots of documented use of the
>> name for years, but it is not a registered trademark (indeed, there are
>> several other "Propel" commercial products that might not take kindly to
>> that).
>>
>> Hans
>>
>> Pedram Nimreezi wrote:
>>>> This might actually be a good idea
>>>> since a smarty policy or a carefully chosen CC license could prevent
>>>> people from "selling" Propel for money,
>>>
>>> I have major issues with that comment, first it aggravates me that you
>>> don't
>>> understand that open source enables products to be made that are
>>> community
>>> oriented and not software that cannot be sold...
>>>
>>> Products are meant to be sold and/or supported. A GPL project is
>>> designed to counter the ability of companies to sell the GPL code
>>> since competition
>>> is effectively diffused when none of them can profit. LGPL code is
>>> different by nature
>>> in that it can be sold, it has little restriction except on
>>> attribution to the authors.
>>> GPL requires this and also requires the code to remain free ,
>>> furthermore
>>> it virally infects other portions of code making it all or mostly GPL as
>>> well.
>>>
>>> Therefore as licenses go GPL is not as free as LGPL which is not as free
>>> as BSD.
>>>
>>> NonCommercial licenses aren't even friggin open source, so I don't know
>>> where it
>>> even comes into your mind as a solution, besides if thats the
>>> solution, well then
>>> whats the problem? You don't want people to use Propel for their
>>> products?
>>>
>>> That's funny... you use mojavi for your agavi framework don't you?
>>> You mean to tell me you never sold a copy of your software?
>>> (NOT THE INSTALL, THE ACTUAL SOFTWARE)
>>>
>>> If it were GPL, you could only charge for Install and Support not the
>>> actual software too.
>>>
>>> Firstly, you nor anyone else can authorize the decision to make Propel,
>>> GPL,
>>> even if you make every version from now on GPL there will still be
>>> LGPL versions,
>>> secondly, I believe you have confused the GPL with the LGPL, the LGPL
>>> can be
>>> sold for money- 1 line of code and an include would make it a PRODUCT...
>>> The LGPL is not as strict as the GPL, that is why the LGPL and BSD
>>> License
>>> is called "Actually Free" whereas the GPL is called "Virulent", lastly
>>> there is
>>> a BSD Licensed version of Propel as well which I am responsible for,
>>> that also
>>> can be SOLD... Example OSX remasters Darwin BSD, no where will you
>>> find a
>>> BSD Daemon Logo on the Apple website however.
>>>
>>> Propel's logo doesn't HAVE to be on my site, but I may want to spread
>>> its acceptance
>>> and to that effect I and hopefully many others will as well...
>>>
>>> My opinion is that the copyright holder of the image should give
>>> the propel project
>>> authority to put the logo on its site for redistribution where it can
>>> be linked to the
>>> propel site just like the propel project gave me authority to maintain
>>> the PHP4
>>> version of propel because I asked for it and followed procedure & no
>>> ones worked on it in
>>> years.
>>> I also believe there should be more versions of the propel logo,
>>> different back
>>> colors, or GIF/PNG and try to expand on that instead of thinking of
>>> relicensing it or
>>> any part of propel as NonCommercial which goes against the very concept
>>> of its
>>> current license(s). A CreativeCommons on documentation ONLY would be
>>> acceptable,
>>> but keep in mind that people taking the documentation to put on their
>>> site which links
>>> to propel will only increase the visibility of these sites.
>>>
>>> peace...
>>> ~~~~~~~
>>> ...pedram
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2/17/07, David Zülke <dz at bitxtender dot com> wrote:
>>>> No, it's fine like this. As you pointed out, he's the copyright
>>>> owner, so the work is still protected (actually, it probably isn't,
>>>> since it's very likely that it, like many compositions of existing
>>>> works, lacks the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
>>>> Threshold_of_originality). He created it for the specific purpose of
>>>> putting it up free for everyone on the website. Of course, Rob _can_
>>>> declare a license or any limitations regarding usage, like http://
>>>> smarty.php.net/copyright.php. This might actually be a good idea
>>>> since a smarty policy or a carefully chosen CC license could prevent
>>>> people from "selling" Propel for money, with the official logo, for
>>>> instance. I believe a CC-NonCommercial-ShareAlike license would be
>>>> possible because putting the logo on a website or into a product for
>>>> the purpose of linking to the Propel site or declaring that the
>>>> software is powered by Propel is not a commercial purpose in the same
>>>> sense as, say, using CC-NonCommercial-licensed icons in the UI of the
>>>> application (and that is what the "non-commercial" in such a CC
>>>> license is about), but my guess is that a laywer would have to decide
>>>> that, any we'll be just fine without a license ;)
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 17.02.2007 um 03:01 schrieb Hans Lellelid:
>>>>
>>>>> On second thought I don't think we need any sort of licensed
>>>>> release. Rob is copyright owner for the images; that seems fine by
>>>>> me. David may have some input on this issue, though, since I know
>>>>> he's been thinking about some of these issues w/ Agavi, Symfony, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hans
>>>>>
>>>>> Hans Lellelid wrote:
>>>>>> I have no idea... David?
>>>>>> Cameron Brunner wrote:
>>>>>>> mwahahaha, me likey! :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> hans: do we need an email from rob saying that he releases these
>>>>>>> under
>>>>>>> a blah license for us?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/17/07, Robert Bruce <rob@thirddimensi​ondesign.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>> Will this do?
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>> Hans Lellelid wrote:
>>>>>​>>> Yeah -- I wasn't thinking we'd change the main site logo. Just
>>>>>​>>> have the
>>>>>​>>> "powered" button; sorry, I guess my note wasn't clear.
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>> ... I wish I still had the vector artwork ... I didn't design the
>>>>>​>>> original logo & well ... it's a long story :)
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>> Hans
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>> David Zülke wrote:
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>> Yay, having ze Propel logo in vector format would be ace. Let's
>>>>>​>>> just not
>>>>>​>>> change it, however. It's genuis. Only "problem" _might_ be the
>>>>>​>>> lowercase
>>>>>​>>> first p, should we decide to have some kind of "CI" in the long
>>>>>​>>> term.
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>> Cheers,
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>> David
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>> Am 16.02.2007 um 16:03 schrieb Hans Lellelid:
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>> Hi,
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>> I think that's a great idea. I can create a page for that on the
>>>>>​>>> wiki.
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>> I'd also be very willing to have anyone with some graphics
>>>>>​>>> experience /
>>>>>​>>> time on their hands to create a logo! (You'll get credit & tons of
>>>>>​>>> appreciation, of course!) :)
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>> Hans
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>> Robert Bruce wrote:
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>> Our company uses propel, we wouldn't object at all. Our product
>>>>>​>>> hasn't
>>>>>​>>> been released yet, but it due to be soon.
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>> We've done some interesting stuff with using propel to obtain
>>>>>​>>> Smarty
>>>>>​>>> templates from the database, with some extra magic too.
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>> On Fri, February 16, 2007 1:47 pm, Cameron Brunner wrote:
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>> Was just curious if anyone objected to a page in trac dedicated to
>>>>>​>>> sites/projects that are powered by propel (purely propel?
>>>>>​>>> symfony as
>>>>>​>>> well?) and/or companies that use propel? Perhaps even some general
>>>>>​>>> reports from users on why they use it blahblah?
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>> Also has anyone got a nice little powered by propel logo?
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>> --
>>>>>​>>> Cameron Brunner
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>> Want a better web browser?
>>>>>​>>> http://www.spreadfir​efox.com/?q=affiliat​es&id=182780​&t=1
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
>>>>>​>>> --
>>>>>​>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>>>​>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
>>>>>​>>> --
>>>>>​>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>>>​>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
>>>>>​>>> --
>>>>>​>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>>>​>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
>>>>>​>>> --
>>>>>​>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>>>​>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
>>>>>​>>> --
>>>>>​>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>>>​>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
>>>>>​>>> --
>>>>>​>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>>>​>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>​>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>
>>
>
> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>

Re: [propel-dev] Powered by propel?

Reply

Author =?ISO-8859-1?Q?David_Z=FClke?= <dz at bitxtender dot com>
Full name =?ISO-8859-1?Q?David_Z=FClke?= <dz at bitxtender dot com>
Date 2007-02-18 07:50:20 PST
Message I'm fine with people charging money for a Propel download. Well I'm
not fine with that, since it would mean some people would get ripped
off, but the license allows it. I was just saying that I don't want
to see people using the Propel name and the Propel logo for such a
product. PHP, Apache, Python, Smarty etc don't allow that either. See
http://httpd.apache.​org/docs/2.2/faq/bac​kground.html#backgro​und.logo
for instance (last section).


David



Am 18.02.2007 um 15:55 schrieb Hans Lellelid:

> Let me interject a few things before this spirals out of control :)
>
> First off, I think I can identify with David's sentiments here; while
> Propel is open-source, I think that we'd all feel a bit insulted/
> scammed
> if anyone was charging people to download Propel in its open-source
> branded form. That said, I don't any of us would be all that upset if
> people were putting Propel on a CD, printing out a manual, and selling
> the whole thing -- or, more likely, putting Propel on a CD with a
> bunch
> of other open-source software and selling the whole thing with a
> magazine).
>
> On the other hand, I believe in open-source software and believe it
> should be free -- and of course part of that freedom is in allowing
> people to do what they wish with it, even if that be something that
> might make me feel a little "scammed" like charging for a
> download. Of
> course, I do personally believe in some obligation in open-source; I
> like the LGPL because it gives leverage to the developers who want to
> submit back improvements (I really believe everyone wants to
> contribute
> code, and I feel like the LGPL gives people a justification in asking
> people who pay their paycheck to honor that & allow them to submit
> back
> code modifications/improvements).
>
> I don't see your point about the GPL not allowing people to sell
> software for money. I agree that it may not make much sense, since my
> understanding is that it can be distributed for free by the receiving
> party, but I believe the ability to sell is built-in to the GPL:
> http://www.gnu.org/l​icenses/gpl-faq.html​#DoesTheGPLAllowMone​y
>
> So, ultimately, I agree that we don't need to discourage people from
> making money by selling, in some for or other, the Propel product. In
> fact, selling Propel would be a good thing for the project. I do
> think
> it's good to think about copyright issues when people contribute
> work -
> like logos, etc. - but this is not something that is contributing to
> keeping me awake at night :)
>
> I don't ever want to get into some sort of copyright battle over
> Propel
> logo, name, etc. We've certainly have lots of documented use of the
> name for years, but it is not a registered trademark (indeed, there
> are
> several other "Propel" commercial products that might not take
> kindly to
> that).
>
> Hans
>
> Pedram Nimreezi wrote:
>>> This might actually be a good idea
>>> since a smarty policy or a carefully chosen CC license could prevent
>>> people from "selling" Propel for money,
>>
>> I have major issues with that comment, first it aggravates me that
>> you
>> don't
>> understand that open source enables products to be made that are
>> community
>> oriented and not software that cannot be sold...
>>
>> Products are meant to be sold and/or supported. A GPL project is
>> designed to counter the ability of companies to sell the GPL code
>> since competition
>> is effectively diffused when none of them can profit. LGPL code is
>> different by nature
>> in that it can be sold, it has little restriction except on
>> attribution to the authors.
>> GPL requires this and also requires the code to remain free ,
>> furthermore
>> it virally infects other portions of code making it all or mostly
>> GPL as
>> well.
>>
>> Therefore as licenses go GPL is not as free as LGPL which is not
>> as free
>> as BSD.
>>
>> NonCommercial licenses aren't even friggin open source, so I don't
>> know
>> where it
>> even comes into your mind as a solution, besides if thats the
>> solution, well then
>> whats the problem? You don't want people to use Propel for their
>> products?
>>
>> That's funny... you use mojavi for your agavi framework don't you?
>> You mean to tell me you never sold a copy of your software?
>> (NOT THE INSTALL, THE ACTUAL SOFTWARE)
>>
>> If it were GPL, you could only charge for Install and Support not the
>> actual software too.
>>
>> Firstly, you nor anyone else can authorize the decision to make
>> Propel,
>> GPL,
>> even if you make every version from now on GPL there will still be
>> LGPL versions,
>> secondly, I believe you have confused the GPL with the LGPL, the LGPL
>> can be
>> sold for money- 1 line of code and an include would make it a
>> PRODUCT...
>> The LGPL is not as strict as the GPL, that is why the LGPL and BSD
>> License
>> is called "Actually Free" whereas the GPL is called "Virulent",
>> lastly
>> there is
>> a BSD Licensed version of Propel as well which I am responsible for,
>> that also
>> can be SOLD... Example OSX remasters Darwin BSD, no where will you
>> find a
>> BSD Daemon Logo on the Apple website however.
>>
>> Propel's logo doesn't HAVE to be on my site, but I may want to spread
>> its acceptance
>> and to that effect I and hopefully many others will as well...
>>
>> My opinion is that the copyright holder of the image should give
>> the propel project
>> authority to put the logo on its site for redistribution where it can
>> be linked to the
>> propel site just like the propel project gave me authority to
>> maintain
>> the PHP4
>> version of propel because I asked for it and followed procedure & no
>> ones worked on it in
>> years.
>> I also believe there should be more versions of the propel logo,
>> different back
>> colors, or GIF/PNG and try to expand on that instead of thinking of
>> relicensing it or
>> any part of propel as NonCommercial which goes against the very
>> concept
>> of its
>> current license(s). A CreativeCommons on documentation ONLY would be
>> acceptable,
>> but keep in mind that people taking the documentation to put on their
>> site which links
>> to propel will only increase the visibility of these sites.
>>
>> peace...
>> ~~~~~~~
>> ...pedram
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2/17/07, David Zülke <dz at bitxtender dot com> wrote:
>>> No, it's fine like this. As you pointed out, he's the copyright
>>> owner, so the work is still protected (actually, it probably isn't,
>>> since it's very likely that it, like many compositions of existing
>>> works, lacks the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
>>> Threshold_of_originality). He created it for the specific purpose of
>>> putting it up free for everyone on the website. Of course, Rob _can_
>>> declare a license or any limitations regarding usage, like http://
>>> smarty.php.net/copyright.php. This might actually be a good idea
>>> since a smarty policy or a carefully chosen CC license could prevent
>>> people from "selling" Propel for money, with the official logo, for
>>> instance. I believe a CC-NonCommercial-ShareAlike license would be
>>> possible because putting the logo on a website or into a product for
>>> the purpose of linking to the Propel site or declaring that the
>>> software is powered by Propel is not a commercial purpose in the
>>> same
>>> sense as, say, using CC-NonCommercial-licensed icons in the UI of
>>> the
>>> application (and that is what the "non-commercial" in such a CC
>>> license is about), but my guess is that a laywer would have to
>>> decide
>>> that, any we'll be just fine without a license ;)
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 17.02.2007 um 03:01 schrieb Hans Lellelid:
>>>
>>>> On second thought I don't think we need any sort of licensed
>>>> release. Rob is copyright owner for the images; that seems fine by
>>>> me. David may have some input on this issue, though, since I know
>>>> he's been thinking about some of these issues w/ Agavi, Symfony,
>>>> etc.
>>>>
>>>> Hans
>>>>
>>>> Hans Lellelid wrote:
>>>>> I have no idea... David?
>>>>> Cameron Brunner wrote:
>>>>>> mwahahaha, me likey! :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> hans: do we need an email from rob saying that he releases these
>>>>>> under
>>>>>> a blah license for us?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/17/07, Robert Bruce <rob@thirddimensi​ondesign.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Will this do?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hans Lellelid wrote:
>>>>>>> Yeah -- I wasn't thinking we'd change the main site logo. Just
>>>>>>> have the
>>>>>>> "powered" button; sorry, I guess my note wasn't clear.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ... I wish I still had the vector artwork ... I didn't design
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> original logo & well ... it's a long story :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hans
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David Zülke wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yay, having ze Propel logo in vector format would be ace. Let's
>>>>>>> just not
>>>>>>> change it, however. It's genuis. Only "problem" _might_ be the
>>>>>>> lowercase
>>>>>>> first p, should we decide to have some kind of "CI" in the long
>>>>>>> term.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> David
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am 16.02.2007 um 16:03 schrieb Hans Lellelid:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think that's a great idea. I can create a page for that on the
>>>>>>> wiki.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd also be very willing to have anyone with some graphics
>>>>>>> experience /
>>>>>>> time on their hands to create a logo! (You'll get credit &
>>>>>>> tons of
>>>>>>> appreciation, of course!) :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hans
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Robert Bruce wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Our company uses propel, we wouldn't object at all. Our product
>>>>>>> hasn't
>>>>>>> been released yet, but it due to be soon.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We've done some interesting stuff with using propel to obtain
>>>>>>> Smarty
>>>>>>> templates from the database, with some extra magic too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, February 16, 2007 1:47 pm, Cameron Brunner wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Was just curious if anyone objected to a page in trac
>>>>>>> dedicated to
>>>>>>> sites/projects that are powered by propel (purely propel?
>>>>>>> symfony as
>>>>>>> well?) and/or companies that use propel? Perhaps even some
>>>>>>> general
>>>>>>> reports from users on why they use it blahblah?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also has anyone got a nice little powered by propel logo?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Cameron Brunner
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Want a better web browser?
>>>>>>> http://www.spreadfir​efox.com/?q=affiliat​es&id=182780​&t=1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​----
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​----
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​----
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​----
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​----
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​----
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​------
>>>>> ---
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>
>>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
>>>> --
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​--------
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>
>

Re: [propel-dev] Powered by propel?

Reply

Author =?ISO-8859-1?Q?David_Z=FClke?= <dz at bitxtender dot com>
Full name =?ISO-8859-1?Q?David_Z=FClke?= <dz at bitxtender dot com>
Date 2007-02-18 07:46:10 PST
Message You didn't understand what I was saying. I proposed a license for the
_logo image_ that prevents people from using it to sell their software.

Example: I go ahead, repackage Propel 1.3 and label it Propel 2.0,
use the official Propel logo for that and charge money for it.

PHP doesn't allow others to have "PHP" in product names or use the
official PHP logo, and I think that is a good thing. We shouldn't
allow that, either.

And no, Agavi does not cost any money. And yes, I know what the GPL
is. And no, I don't confuse it with the LGPL. Only fools or die hard
FOSS fanatics with long beards and dirty finger nails would use the
GPL for a library.

David

P.S: oh and of course you can charge money for a GPL licensed
software. You just won't find anyone stupid enough to pay you for
something that will then be free for the rest of the world. And of
course, you can dual-license stuff, see MySQL.



Am 18.02.2007 um 10:25 schrieb Pedram Nimreezi:

>> This might actually be a good idea
>> since a smarty policy or a carefully chosen CC license could prevent
>> people from "selling" Propel for money,
>
> I have major issues with that comment, first it aggravates me that
> you don't
> understand that open source enables products to be made that are
> community
> oriented and not software that cannot be sold...
>
> Products are meant to be sold and/or supported. A GPL project is
> designed to counter the ability of companies to sell the GPL code
> since competition
> is effectively diffused when none of them can profit. LGPL code is
> different by nature
> in that it can be sold, it has little restriction except on
> attribution to the authors.
> GPL requires this and also requires the code to remain free ,
> furthermore
> it virally infects other portions of code making it all or mostly
> GPL as well.
>
> Therefore as licenses go GPL is not as free as LGPL which is not as
> free as BSD.
>
> NonCommercial licenses aren't even friggin open source, so I don't
> know where it
> even comes into your mind as a solution, besides if thats the
> solution, well then
> whats the problem? You don't want people to use Propel for their
> products?
>
> That's funny... you use mojavi for your agavi framework don't you?
> You mean to tell me you never sold a copy of your software?
> (NOT THE INSTALL, THE ACTUAL SOFTWARE)
>
> If it were GPL, you could only charge for Install and Support not the
> actual software too.
>
> Firstly, you nor anyone else can authorize the decision to make
> Propel, GPL,
> even if you make every version from now on GPL there will still be
> LGPL versions,
> secondly, I believe you have confused the GPL with the LGPL, the
> LGPL can be
> sold for money- 1 line of code and an include would make it a
> PRODUCT...
> The LGPL is not as strict as the GPL, that is why the LGPL and BSD
> License
> is called "Actually Free" whereas the GPL is called "Virulent",
> lastly there is
> a BSD Licensed version of Propel as well which I am responsible
> for, that also
> can be SOLD... Example OSX remasters Darwin BSD, no where will you
> find a
> BSD Daemon Logo on the Apple website however.
>
> Propel's logo doesn't HAVE to be on my site, but I may want to spread
> its acceptance
> and to that effect I and hopefully many others will as well...
>
> My opinion is that the copyright holder of the image should give
> the propel project
> authority to put the logo on its site for redistribution where it can
> be linked to the
> propel site just like the propel project gave me authority to
> maintain the PHP4
> version of propel because I asked for it and followed procedure & no
> ones worked on it in
> years.
> I also believe there should be more versions of the propel logo,
> different back
> colors, or GIF/PNG and try to expand on that instead of thinking of
> relicensing it or
> any part of propel as NonCommercial which goes against the very
> concept of its
> current license(s). A CreativeCommons on documentation ONLY would
> be acceptable,
> but keep in mind that people taking the documentation to put on their
> site which links
> to propel will only increase the visibility of these sites.
>
> peace...
> ~~~~~~~
> ...pedram
>
>
>
>
> On 2/17/07, David Zülke <dz at bitxtender dot com> wrote:
>> No, it's fine like this. As you pointed out, he's the copyright
>> owner, so the work is still protected (actually, it probably isn't,
>> since it's very likely that it, like many compositions of existing
>> works, lacks the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
>> Threshold_of_originality). He created it for the specific purpose of
>> putting it up free for everyone on the website. Of course, Rob _can_
>> declare a license or any limitations regarding usage, like http://
>> smarty.php.net/copyright.php. This might actually be a good idea
>> since a smarty policy or a carefully chosen CC license could prevent
>> people from "selling" Propel for money, with the official logo, for
>> instance. I believe a CC-NonCommercial-ShareAlike license would be
>> possible because putting the logo on a website or into a product for
>> the purpose of linking to the Propel site or declaring that the
>> software is powered by Propel is not a commercial purpose in the same
>> sense as, say, using CC-NonCommercial-licensed icons in the UI of the
>> application (and that is what the "non-commercial" in such a CC
>> license is about), but my guess is that a laywer would have to decide
>> that, any we'll be just fine without a license ;)
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 17.02.2007 um 03:01 schrieb Hans Lellelid:
>>
>> > On second thought I don't think we need any sort of licensed
>> > release. Rob is copyright owner for the images; that seems fine by
>> > me. David may have some input on this issue, though, since I know
>> > he's been thinking about some of these issues w/ Agavi, Symfony,
>> etc.
>> >
>> > Hans
>> >
>> > Hans Lellelid wrote:
>> >> I have no idea... David?
>> >> Cameron Brunner wrote:
>> >>> mwahahaha, me likey! :)
>> >>>
>> >>> hans: do we need an email from rob saying that he releases these
>> >>> under
>> >>> a blah license for us?
>> >>>
>> >>> On 2/17/07, Robert Bruce <rob@thirddimensi​ondesign.co.uk> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Will this do?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hans Lellelid wrote:
>> >>>> Yeah -- I wasn't thinking we'd change the main site logo. Just
>> >>>> have the
>> >>>> "powered" button; sorry, I guess my note wasn't clear.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ... I wish I still had the vector artwork ... I didn't design
>> the
>> >>>> original logo & well ... it's a long story :)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hans
>> >>>>
>> >>>> David Zülke wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Yay, having ze Propel logo in vector format would be ace. Let's
>> >>>> just not
>> >>>> change it, however. It's genuis. Only "problem" _might_ be the
>> >>>> lowercase
>> >>>> first p, should we decide to have some kind of "CI" in the long
>> >>>> term.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Cheers,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> David
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Am 16.02.2007 um 16:03 schrieb Hans Lellelid:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hi,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I think that's a great idea. I can create a page for that on the
>> >>>> wiki.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'd also be very willing to have anyone with some graphics
>> >>>> experience /
>> >>>> time on their hands to create a logo! (You'll get credit &
>> tons of
>> >>>> appreciation, of course!) :)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hans
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Robert Bruce wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Our company uses propel, we wouldn't object at all. Our product
>> >>>> hasn't
>> >>>> been released yet, but it due to be soon.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> We've done some interesting stuff with using propel to obtain
>> >>>> Smarty
>> >>>> templates from the database, with some extra magic too.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Fri, February 16, 2007 1:47 pm, Cameron Brunner wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Was just curious if anyone objected to a page in trac
>> dedicated to
>> >>>> sites/projects that are powered by propel (purely propel?
>> >>>> symfony as
>> >>>> well?) and/or companies that use propel? Perhaps even some
>> general
>> >>>> reports from users on why they use it blahblah?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Also has anyone got a nice little powered by propel logo?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Cameron Brunner
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Want a better web browser?
>> >>>> http://www.spreadfir​efox.com/?q=affiliat​es&id=182780​&t=1
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>> >
>> >
>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ~
> Pedram Nimreezi
>
> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>
>

Re: [propel-dev] Powered by propel?

Reply

Author Pedram Nimreezi <zenstyle at gmail dot com>
Full name Pedram Nimreezi <zenstyle at gmail dot com>
Date 2007-02-18 07:34:01 PST
Message Hello Hans... to clarify, when I was referring to the GPL as not being
code that
is sellable... I meant in the sense of Question 3, which states

Q: Does the GPL allow me to require that anyone who receives the
software must pay me a fee and/or notify me?
A: No

Furthermore, if your project is based on 1 line of GPL code, you still
cannot sell it.

I didn't mean you can't put it on a CD and sell it, quite literally
Ebay does that daily.

therefore you could say that the GPL is free for users while it is NOT free for
software product developers, unless of course their products are free, in which
case it doesn't really matter.

the LGPL is nice because it requires attribution unless waived,
however derived works
can be sold, (the code can).

the BSD license is the nicest, just look at Mac OSX, no one knows it's
BSD unless
they are adept enough and able to tell... adept as in (can type uname -a) which
99% of mac users can't... So they go wow, mac has no viruses, it doesn't crash
Mac is great... in reality BSD is great... The daemon, not the apple,
if they had to
attribute then fanfare might sound something more like, I'm glad Mac
switched to BSD.

In my case I am developing a product which i fully intend to sell,
starting with an
open source framework and then software built on that, software that
is professional.

If someone is selling propel downloads then they are in the wrong, but
that's not what
I was referring to at all.

I was referring to any root software licensing affecting software
branched from it, and
that people's decision to branch software from it is usually
determined from the specific
license it's under. In the sense of a GPL or NonCommercial license I
fully believe
it will do nothing but drive users and prospective developers away...
and not you know
stop "asshats" from selling propel or any LGPL software outright...

finally, there are a lot of things you can do to make developers like
us feel scammed,
such as forking their framework without so much as a link back...



peace...
~~~~~~~
...pedram


On 2/18/07, Hans Lellelid <hans at velum dot net> wrote:
> Let me interject a few things before this spirals out of control :)
>
> First off, I think I can identify with David's sentiments here; while
> Propel is open-source, I think that we'd all feel a bit insulted/scammed
> if anyone was charging people to download Propel in its open-source
> branded form. That said, I don't any of us would be all that upset if
> people were putting Propel on a CD, printing out a manual, and selling
> the whole thing -- or, more likely, putting Propel on a CD with a bunch
> of other open-source software and selling the whole thing with a magazine).
>
> On the other hand, I believe in open-source software and believe it
> should be free -- and of course part of that freedom is in allowing
> people to do what they wish with it, even if that be something that
> might make me feel a little "scammed" like charging for a download. Of
> course, I do personally believe in some obligation in open-source; I
> like the LGPL because it gives leverage to the developers who want to
> submit back improvements (I really believe everyone wants to contribute
> code, and I feel like the LGPL gives people a justification in asking
> people who pay their paycheck to honor that & allow them to submit back
> code modifications/improvements).
>
> I don't see your point about the GPL not allowing people to sell
> software for money. I agree that it may not make much sense, since my
> understanding is that it can be distributed for free by the receiving
> party, but I believe the ability to sell is built-in to the GPL:
> http://www.gnu.org/l​icenses/gpl-faq.html​#DoesTheGPLAllowMone​y
>
> So, ultimately, I agree that we don't need to discourage people from
> making money by selling, in some for or other, the Propel product. In
> fact, selling Propel would be a good thing for the project. I do think
> it's good to think about copyright issues when people contribute work -
> like logos, etc. - but this is not something that is contributing to
> keeping me awake at night :)
>
> I don't ever want to get into some sort of copyright battle over Propel
> logo, name, etc. We've certainly have lots of documented use of the
> name for years, but it is not a registered trademark (indeed, there are
> several other "Propel" commercial products that might not take kindly to
> that).
>
> Hans
>
> Pedram Nimreezi wrote:
> >> This might actually be a good idea
> >> since a smarty policy or a carefully chosen CC license could prevent
> >> people from "selling" Propel for money,
> >
> > I have major issues with that comment, first it aggravates me that you
> > don't
> > understand that open source enables products to be made that are community
> > oriented and not software that cannot be sold...
> >
> > Products are meant to be sold and/or supported. A GPL project is
> > designed to counter the ability of companies to sell the GPL code
> > since competition
> > is effectively diffused when none of them can profit. LGPL code is
> > different by nature
> > in that it can be sold, it has little restriction except on
> > attribution to the authors.
> > GPL requires this and also requires the code to remain free , furthermore
> > it virally infects other portions of code making it all or mostly GPL as
> > well.
> >
> > Therefore as licenses go GPL is not as free as LGPL which is not as free
> > as BSD.
> >
> > NonCommercial licenses aren't even friggin open source, so I don't know
> > where it
> > even comes into your mind as a solution, besides if thats the
> > solution, well then
> > whats the problem? You don't want people to use Propel for their products?
> >
> > That's funny... you use mojavi for your agavi framework don't you?
> > You mean to tell me you never sold a copy of your software?
> > (NOT THE INSTALL, THE ACTUAL SOFTWARE)
> >
> > If it were GPL, you could only charge for Install and Support not the
> > actual software too.
> >
> > Firstly, you nor anyone else can authorize the decision to make Propel,
> > GPL,
> > even if you make every version from now on GPL there will still be
> > LGPL versions,
> > secondly, I believe you have confused the GPL with the LGPL, the LGPL
> > can be
> > sold for money- 1 line of code and an include would make it a PRODUCT...
> > The LGPL is not as strict as the GPL, that is why the LGPL and BSD License
> > is called "Actually Free" whereas the GPL is called "Virulent", lastly
> > there is
> > a BSD Licensed version of Propel as well which I am responsible for,
> > that also
> > can be SOLD... Example OSX remasters Darwin BSD, no where will you find a
> > BSD Daemon Logo on the Apple website however.
> >
> > Propel's logo doesn't HAVE to be on my site, but I may want to spread
> > its acceptance
> > and to that effect I and hopefully many others will as well...
> >
> > My opinion is that the copyright holder of the image should give
> > the propel project
> > authority to put the logo on its site for redistribution where it can
> > be linked to the
> > propel site just like the propel project gave me authority to maintain
> > the PHP4
> > version of propel because I asked for it and followed procedure & no
> > ones worked on it in
> > years.
> > I also believe there should be more versions of the propel logo,
> > different back
> > colors, or GIF/PNG and try to expand on that instead of thinking of
> > relicensing it or
> > any part of propel as NonCommercial which goes against the very concept
> > of its
> > current license(s). A CreativeCommons on documentation ONLY would be
> > acceptable,
> > but keep in mind that people taking the documentation to put on their
> > site which links
> > to propel will only increase the visibility of these sites.
> >
> > peace...
> > ~~~~~~~
> > ...pedram
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2/17/07, David Zülke <dz at bitxtender dot com> wrote:
> >> No, it's fine like this. As you pointed out, he's the copyright
> >> owner, so the work is still protected (actually, it probably isn't,
> >> since it's very likely that it, like many compositions of existing
> >> works, lacks the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> >> Threshold_of_originality). He created it for the specific purpose of
> >> putting it up free for everyone on the website. Of course, Rob _can_
> >> declare a license or any limitations regarding usage, like http://
> >> smarty.php.net/copyright.php. This might actually be a good idea
> >> since a smarty policy or a carefully chosen CC license could prevent
> >> people from "selling" Propel for money, with the official logo, for
> >> instance. I believe a CC-NonCommercial-ShareAlike license would be
> >> possible because putting the logo on a website or into a product for
> >> the purpose of linking to the Propel site or declaring that the
> >> software is powered by Propel is not a commercial purpose in the same
> >> sense as, say, using CC-NonCommercial-licensed icons in the UI of the
> >> application (and that is what the "non-commercial" in such a CC
> >> license is about), but my guess is that a laywer would have to decide
> >> that, any we'll be just fine without a license ;)
> >>
> >> David
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Am 17.02.2007 um 03:01 schrieb Hans Lellelid:
> >>
> >> > On second thought I don't think we need any sort of licensed
> >> > release. Rob is copyright owner for the images; that seems fine by
> >> > me. David may have some input on this issue, though, since I know
> >> > he's been thinking about some of these issues w/ Agavi, Symfony, etc.
> >> >
> >> > Hans
> >> >
> >> > Hans Lellelid wrote:
> >> >> I have no idea... David?
> >> >> Cameron Brunner wrote:
> >> >>> mwahahaha, me likey! :)
> >> >>>
> >> >>> hans: do we need an email from rob saying that he releases these
> >> >>> under
> >> >>> a blah license for us?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On 2/17/07, Robert Bruce <rob@thirddimensi​ondesign.co.uk> wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Will this do?
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Hans Lellelid wrote:
> >> >>>> Yeah -- I wasn't thinking we'd change the main site logo. Just
> >> >>>> have the
> >> >>>> "powered" button; sorry, I guess my note wasn't clear.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> ... I wish I still had the vector artwork ... I didn't design the
> >> >>>> original logo & well ... it's a long story :)
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Hans
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> David Zülke wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Yay, having ze Propel logo in vector format would be ace. Let's
> >> >>>> just not
> >> >>>> change it, however. It's genuis. Only "problem" _might_ be the
> >> >>>> lowercase
> >> >>>> first p, should we decide to have some kind of "CI" in the long
> >> >>>> term.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Cheers,
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> David
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Am 16.02.2007 um 16:03 schrieb Hans Lellelid:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Hi,
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I think that's a great idea. I can create a page for that on the
> >> >>>> wiki.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I'd also be very willing to have anyone with some graphics
> >> >>>> experience /
> >> >>>> time on their hands to create a logo! (You'll get credit & tons of
> >> >>>> appreciation, of course!) :)
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Hans
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Robert Bruce wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Our company uses propel, we wouldn't object at all. Our product
> >> >>>> hasn't
> >> >>>> been released yet, but it due to be soon.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> We've done some interesting stuff with using propel to obtain
> >> >>>> Smarty
> >> >>>> templates from the database, with some extra magic too.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> On Fri, February 16, 2007 1:47 pm, Cameron Brunner wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Was just curious if anyone objected to a page in trac dedicated to
> >> >>>> sites/projects that are powered by propel (purely propel?
> >> >>>> symfony as
> >> >>>> well?) and/or companies that use propel? Perhaps even some general
> >> >>>> reports from users on why they use it blahblah?
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Also has anyone got a nice little powered by propel logo?
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> --
> >> >>>> Cameron Brunner
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Want a better web browser?
> >> >>>> http://www.spreadfir​efox.com/?q=affiliat​es&id=182780​&t=1
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
> >> >>>> --
> >> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> >> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
> >> >>>> --
> >> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> >> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
> >> >>>> --
> >> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> >> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
> >> >>>> --
> >> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> >> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
> >> >>>> --
> >> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> >> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
> >> >>>> --
> >> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> >> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
> >> >
> >> > --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> >> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>
>

Re: [propel-dev] Powered by propel?

Reply

Author hlellelid
Full name Hans Lellelid
Date 2007-02-18 06:55:32 PST
Message Let me interject a few things before this spirals out of control :)

First off, I think I can identify with David's sentiments here; while
Propel is open-source, I think that we'd all feel a bit insulted/scammed
if anyone was charging people to download Propel in its open-source
branded form. That said, I don't any of us would be all that upset if
people were putting Propel on a CD, printing out a manual, and selling
the whole thing -- or, more likely, putting Propel on a CD with a bunch
of other open-source software and selling the whole thing with a magazine).

On the other hand, I believe in open-source software and believe it
should be free -- and of course part of that freedom is in allowing
people to do what they wish with it, even if that be something that
might make me feel a little "scammed" like charging for a download. Of
course, I do personally believe in some obligation in open-source; I
like the LGPL because it gives leverage to the developers who want to
submit back improvements (I really believe everyone wants to contribute
code, and I feel like the LGPL gives people a justification in asking
people who pay their paycheck to honor that & allow them to submit back
code modifications/improvements).

I don't see your point about the GPL not allowing people to sell
software for money. I agree that it may not make much sense, since my
understanding is that it can be distributed for free by the receiving
party, but I believe the ability to sell is built-in to the GPL:
http://www.gnu.org/l​icenses/gpl-faq.html​#DoesTheGPLAllowMone​y

So, ultimately, I agree that we don't need to discourage people from
making money by selling, in some for or other, the Propel product. In
fact, selling Propel would be a good thing for the project. I do think
it's good to think about copyright issues when people contribute work -
like logos, etc. - but this is not something that is contributing to
keeping me awake at night :)

I don't ever want to get into some sort of copyright battle over Propel
logo, name, etc. We've certainly have lots of documented use of the
name for years, but it is not a registered trademark (indeed, there are
several other "Propel" commercial products that might not take kindly to
that).

Hans

Pedram Nimreezi wrote:
>> This might actually be a good idea
>> since a smarty policy or a carefully chosen CC license could prevent
>> people from "selling" Propel for money,
>
> I have major issues with that comment, first it aggravates me that you
> don't
> understand that open source enables products to be made that are community
> oriented and not software that cannot be sold...
>
> Products are meant to be sold and/or supported. A GPL project is
> designed to counter the ability of companies to sell the GPL code
> since competition
> is effectively diffused when none of them can profit. LGPL code is
> different by nature
> in that it can be sold, it has little restriction except on
> attribution to the authors.
> GPL requires this and also requires the code to remain free , furthermore
> it virally infects other portions of code making it all or mostly GPL as
> well.
>
> Therefore as licenses go GPL is not as free as LGPL which is not as free
> as BSD.
>
> NonCommercial licenses aren't even friggin open source, so I don't know
> where it
> even comes into your mind as a solution, besides if thats the
> solution, well then
> whats the problem? You don't want people to use Propel for their products?
>
> That's funny... you use mojavi for your agavi framework don't you?
> You mean to tell me you never sold a copy of your software?
> (NOT THE INSTALL, THE ACTUAL SOFTWARE)
>
> If it were GPL, you could only charge for Install and Support not the
> actual software too.
>
> Firstly, you nor anyone else can authorize the decision to make Propel,
> GPL,
> even if you make every version from now on GPL there will still be
> LGPL versions,
> secondly, I believe you have confused the GPL with the LGPL, the LGPL
> can be
> sold for money- 1 line of code and an include would make it a PRODUCT...
> The LGPL is not as strict as the GPL, that is why the LGPL and BSD License
> is called "Actually Free" whereas the GPL is called "Virulent", lastly
> there is
> a BSD Licensed version of Propel as well which I am responsible for,
> that also
> can be SOLD... Example OSX remasters Darwin BSD, no where will you find a
> BSD Daemon Logo on the Apple website however.
>
> Propel's logo doesn't HAVE to be on my site, but I may want to spread
> its acceptance
> and to that effect I and hopefully many others will as well...
>
> My opinion is that the copyright holder of the image should give
> the propel project
> authority to put the logo on its site for redistribution where it can
> be linked to the
> propel site just like the propel project gave me authority to maintain
> the PHP4
> version of propel because I asked for it and followed procedure & no
> ones worked on it in
> years.
> I also believe there should be more versions of the propel logo,
> different back
> colors, or GIF/PNG and try to expand on that instead of thinking of
> relicensing it or
> any part of propel as NonCommercial which goes against the very concept
> of its
> current license(s). A CreativeCommons on documentation ONLY would be
> acceptable,
> but keep in mind that people taking the documentation to put on their
> site which links
> to propel will only increase the visibility of these sites.
>
> peace...
> ~~~~~~~
> ...pedram
>
>
>
>
> On 2/17/07, David Zülke <dz at bitxtender dot com> wrote:
>> No, it's fine like this. As you pointed out, he's the copyright
>> owner, so the work is still protected (actually, it probably isn't,
>> since it's very likely that it, like many compositions of existing
>> works, lacks the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
>> Threshold_of_originality). He created it for the specific purpose of
>> putting it up free for everyone on the website. Of course, Rob _can_
>> declare a license or any limitations regarding usage, like http://
>> smarty.php.net/copyright.php. This might actually be a good idea
>> since a smarty policy or a carefully chosen CC license could prevent
>> people from "selling" Propel for money, with the official logo, for
>> instance. I believe a CC-NonCommercial-ShareAlike license would be
>> possible because putting the logo on a website or into a product for
>> the purpose of linking to the Propel site or declaring that the
>> software is powered by Propel is not a commercial purpose in the same
>> sense as, say, using CC-NonCommercial-licensed icons in the UI of the
>> application (and that is what the "non-commercial" in such a CC
>> license is about), but my guess is that a laywer would have to decide
>> that, any we'll be just fine without a license ;)
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 17.02.2007 um 03:01 schrieb Hans Lellelid:
>>
>> > On second thought I don't think we need any sort of licensed
>> > release. Rob is copyright owner for the images; that seems fine by
>> > me. David may have some input on this issue, though, since I know
>> > he's been thinking about some of these issues w/ Agavi, Symfony, etc.
>> >
>> > Hans
>> >
>> > Hans Lellelid wrote:
>> >> I have no idea... David?
>> >> Cameron Brunner wrote:
>> >>> mwahahaha, me likey! :)
>> >>>
>> >>> hans: do we need an email from rob saying that he releases these
>> >>> under
>> >>> a blah license for us?
>> >>>
>> >>> On 2/17/07, Robert Bruce <rob@thirddimensi​ondesign.co.uk> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Will this do?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hans Lellelid wrote:
>> >>>> Yeah -- I wasn't thinking we'd change the main site logo. Just
>> >>>> have the
>> >>>> "powered" button; sorry, I guess my note wasn't clear.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ... I wish I still had the vector artwork ... I didn't design the
>> >>>> original logo & well ... it's a long story :)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hans
>> >>>>
>> >>>> David Zülke wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Yay, having ze Propel logo in vector format would be ace. Let's
>> >>>> just not
>> >>>> change it, however. It's genuis. Only "problem" _might_ be the
>> >>>> lowercase
>> >>>> first p, should we decide to have some kind of "CI" in the long
>> >>>> term.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Cheers,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> David
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Am 16.02.2007 um 16:03 schrieb Hans Lellelid:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hi,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I think that's a great idea. I can create a page for that on the
>> >>>> wiki.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I'd also be very willing to have anyone with some graphics
>> >>>> experience /
>> >>>> time on their hands to create a logo! (You'll get credit & tons of
>> >>>> appreciation, of course!) :)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hans
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Robert Bruce wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Our company uses propel, we wouldn't object at all. Our product
>> >>>> hasn't
>> >>>> been released yet, but it due to be soon.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> We've done some interesting stuff with using propel to obtain
>> >>>> Smarty
>> >>>> templates from the database, with some extra magic too.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Fri, February 16, 2007 1:47 pm, Cameron Brunner wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Was just curious if anyone objected to a page in trac dedicated to
>> >>>> sites/projects that are powered by propel (purely propel?
>> >>>> symfony as
>> >>>> well?) and/or companies that use propel? Perhaps even some general
>> >>>> reports from users on why they use it blahblah?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Also has anyone got a nice little powered by propel logo?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Cameron Brunner
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Want a better web browser?
>> >>>> http://www.spreadfir​efox.com/?q=affiliat​es&id=182780​&t=1
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>> >
>> > --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [propel-dev] Powered by propel?

Reply

Author Pedram Nimreezi <zenstyle at gmail dot com>
Full name Pedram Nimreezi <zenstyle at gmail dot com>
Date 2007-02-18 01:25:11 PST
Message >This might actually be a good idea
> since a smarty policy or a carefully chosen CC license could prevent
> people from "selling" Propel for money,

I have major issues with that comment, first it aggravates me that you don't
understand that open source enables products to be made that are community
oriented and not software that cannot be sold...

Products are meant to be sold and/or supported. A GPL project is
designed to counter the ability of companies to sell the GPL code
since competition
is effectively diffused when none of them can profit. LGPL code is
different by nature
in that it can be sold, it has little restriction except on
attribution to the authors.
GPL requires this and also requires the code to remain free , furthermore
it virally infects other portions of code making it all or mostly GPL as well.

Therefore as licenses go GPL is not as free as LGPL which is not as free as BSD.

NonCommercial licenses aren't even friggin open source, so I don't know where it
even comes into your mind as a solution, besides if thats the
solution, well then
whats the problem? You don't want people to use Propel for their products?

That's funny... you use mojavi for your agavi framework don't you?
You mean to tell me you never sold a copy of your software?
(NOT THE INSTALL, THE ACTUAL SOFTWARE)

If it were GPL, you could only charge for Install and Support not the
actual software too.

Firstly, you nor anyone else can authorize the decision to make Propel, GPL,
even if you make every version from now on GPL there will still be
LGPL versions,
secondly, I believe you have confused the GPL with the LGPL, the LGPL can be
sold for money- 1 line of code and an include would make it a PRODUCT...
The LGPL is not as strict as the GPL, that is why the LGPL and BSD License
is called "Actually Free" whereas the GPL is called "Virulent", lastly there is
a BSD Licensed version of Propel as well which I am responsible for, that also
can be SOLD... Example OSX remasters Darwin BSD, no where will you find a
BSD Daemon Logo on the Apple website however.

Propel's logo doesn't HAVE to be on my site, but I may want to spread
its acceptance
and to that effect I and hopefully many others will as well...

   My opinion is that the copyright holder of the image should give
the propel project
authority to put the logo on its site for redistribution where it can
be linked to the
propel site just like the propel project gave me authority to maintain the PHP4
version of propel because I asked for it and followed procedure & no
ones worked on it in
years.
   I also believe there should be more versions of the propel logo,
different back
colors, or GIF/PNG and try to expand on that instead of thinking of
relicensing it or
any part of propel as NonCommercial which goes against the very concept of its
current license(s). A CreativeCommons on documentation ONLY would be acceptable,
but keep in mind that people taking the documentation to put on their
site which links
to propel will only increase the visibility of these sites.

peace...
~~~~~~~
...pedram




On 2/17/07, David Zülke <dz at bitxtender dot com> wrote:
> No, it's fine like this. As you pointed out, he's the copyright
> owner, so the work is still protected (actually, it probably isn't,
> since it's very likely that it, like many compositions of existing
> works, lacks the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
> Threshold_of_originality). He created it for the specific purpose of
> putting it up free for everyone on the website. Of course, Rob _can_
> declare a license or any limitations regarding usage, like http://
> smarty.php.net/copyright.php. This might actually be a good idea
> since a smarty policy or a carefully chosen CC license could prevent
> people from "selling" Propel for money, with the official logo, for
> instance. I believe a CC-NonCommercial-ShareAlike license would be
> possible because putting the logo on a website or into a product for
> the purpose of linking to the Propel site or declaring that the
> software is powered by Propel is not a commercial purpose in the same
> sense as, say, using CC-NonCommercial-licensed icons in the UI of the
> application (and that is what the "non-commercial" in such a CC
> license is about), but my guess is that a laywer would have to decide
> that, any we'll be just fine without a license ;)
>
> David
>
>
>
> Am 17.02.2007 um 03:01 schrieb Hans Lellelid:
>
> > On second thought I don't think we need any sort of licensed
> > release. Rob is copyright owner for the images; that seems fine by
> > me. David may have some input on this issue, though, since I know
> > he's been thinking about some of these issues w/ Agavi, Symfony, etc.
> >
> > Hans
> >
> > Hans Lellelid wrote:
> >> I have no idea... David?
> >> Cameron Brunner wrote:
> >>> mwahahaha, me likey! :)
> >>>
> >>> hans: do we need an email from rob saying that he releases these
> >>> under
> >>> a blah license for us?
> >>>
> >>> On 2/17/07, Robert Bruce <rob@thirddimensi​ondesign.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Will this do?
> >>>>
> >>>> Hans Lellelid wrote:
> >>>> Yeah -- I wasn't thinking we'd change the main site logo. Just
> >>>> have the
> >>>> "powered" button; sorry, I guess my note wasn't clear.
> >>>>
> >>>> ... I wish I still had the vector artwork ... I didn't design the
> >>>> original logo & well ... it's a long story :)
> >>>>
> >>>> Hans
> >>>>
> >>>> David Zülke wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Yay, having ze Propel logo in vector format would be ace. Let's
> >>>> just not
> >>>> change it, however. It's genuis. Only "problem" _might_ be the
> >>>> lowercase
> >>>> first p, should we decide to have some kind of "CI" in the long
> >>>> term.
> >>>>
> >>>> Cheers,
> >>>>
> >>>> David
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Am 16.02.2007 um 16:03 schrieb Hans Lellelid:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi,
> >>>>
> >>>> I think that's a great idea. I can create a page for that on the
> >>>> wiki.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'd also be very willing to have anyone with some graphics
> >>>> experience /
> >>>> time on their hands to create a logo! (You'll get credit & tons of
> >>>> appreciation, of course!) :)
> >>>>
> >>>> Hans
> >>>>
> >>>> Robert Bruce wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Our company uses propel, we wouldn't object at all. Our product
> >>>> hasn't
> >>>> been released yet, but it due to be soon.
> >>>>
> >>>> We've done some interesting stuff with using propel to obtain
> >>>> Smarty
> >>>> templates from the database, with some extra magic too.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, February 16, 2007 1:47 pm, Cameron Brunner wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Was just curious if anyone objected to a page in trac dedicated to
> >>>> sites/projects that are powered by propel (purely propel?
> >>>> symfony as
> >>>> well?) and/or companies that use propel? Perhaps even some general
> >>>> reports from users on why they use it blahblah?
> >>>>
> >>>> Also has anyone got a nice little powered by propel logo?
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Cameron Brunner
> >>>>
> >>>> Want a better web browser?
> >>>> http://www.spreadfir​efox.com/?q=affiliat​es&id=182780​&t=1
> >>>>
> >>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
> >>>> --
> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
> >>>> --
> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
> >>>> --
> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
> >>>> --
> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
> >>>> --
> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
> >>>> --
> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
> >
> > --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
> >
> >
>
> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>
>


--
~
Pedram Nimreezi

Re: [propel-dev] Powered by propel?

Reply

Author Robert Bruce <rob at thirddimensiondesign dot co dot uk>
Full name Robert Bruce <rob at thirddimensiondesign dot co dot uk>
Date 2007-02-17 13:10:35 PST
Message Hi guys

Glad you like the "propelled" logo, I don't want to claim copyright or
anything, especially because the propel logo was already done.

Just a lil' mention would be nice :-)

Rob

David Zülke wrote:
> No, it's fine like this. As you pointed out, he's the copyright owner,
> so the work is still protected (actually, it probably isn't, since
> it's very likely that it, like many compositions of existing works,
> lacks the http://en.wikipedia.​org/wiki/Threshold_o​f_originality). He
> created it for the specific purpose of putting it up free for everyone
> on the website. Of course, Rob _can_ declare a license or any
> limitations regarding usage, like http://smarty.php.ne​t/copyright.php.
> This might actually be a good idea since a smarty policy or a
> carefully chosen CC license could prevent people from "selling" Propel
> for money, with the official logo, for instance. I believe a
> CC-NonCommercial-ShareAlike license would be possible because putting
> the logo on a website or into a product for the purpose of linking to
> the Propel site or declaring that the software is powered by Propel is
> not a commercial purpose in the same sense as, say, using
> CC-NonCommercial-licensed icons in the UI of the application (and that
> is what the "non-commercial" in such a CC license is about), but my
> guess is that a laywer would have to decide that, any we'll be just
> fine without a license ;)
>
> David
>
>
>
> Am 17.02.2007 um 03:01 schrieb Hans Lellelid:
>
>> On second thought I don't think we need any sort of licensed release.
>> Rob is copyright owner for the images; that seems fine by me. David
>> may have some input on this issue, though, since I know he's been
>> thinking about some of these issues w/ Agavi, Symfony, etc.
>>
>> Hans
>>
>> Hans Lellelid wrote:
>>> I have no idea... David?
>>> Cameron Brunner wrote:
>>>> mwahahaha, me likey! :)
>>>>
>>>> hans: do we need an email from rob saying that he releases these under
>>>> a blah license for us?
>>>>
>>>> On 2/17/07, Robert Bruce <rob@thirddimensi​ondesign.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Will this do?
>>>>>
>>>>> Hans Lellelid wrote:
>>>>> Yeah -- I wasn't thinking we'd change the main site logo. Just
>>>>> have the
>>>>> "powered" button; sorry, I guess my note wasn't clear.
>>>>>
>>>>> ... I wish I still had the vector artwork ... I didn't design the
>>>>> original logo & well ... it's a long story :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Hans
>>>>>
>>>>> David Zülke wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yay, having ze Propel logo in vector format would be ace. Let's
>>>>> just not
>>>>> change it, however. It's genuis. Only "problem" _might_ be the
>>>>> lowercase
>>>>> first p, should we decide to have some kind of "CI" in the long term.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> David
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 16.02.2007 um 16:03 schrieb Hans Lellelid:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> I think that's a great idea. I can create a page for that on the
>>>>> wiki.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd also be very willing to have anyone with some graphics
>>>>> experience /
>>>>> time on their hands to create a logo! (You'll get credit & tons of
>>>>> appreciation, of course!) :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Hans
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert Bruce wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Our company uses propel, we wouldn't object at all. Our product
>>>>> hasn't
>>>>> been released yet, but it due to be soon.
>>>>>
>>>>> We've done some interesting stuff with using propel to obtain Smarty
>>>>> templates from the database, with some extra magic too.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, February 16, 2007 1:47 pm, Cameron Brunner wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Was just curious if anyone objected to a page in trac dedicated to
>>>>> sites/projects that are powered by propel (purely propel? symfony as
>>>>> well?) and/or companies that use propel? Perhaps even some general
>>>>> reports from users on why they use it blahblah?
>>>>>
>>>>> Also has anyone got a nice little powered by propel logo?
>>>>>
>>>>> --Cameron Brunner
>>>>>
>>>>> Want a better web browser?
>>>>> http://www.spreadfir​efox.com/?q=affiliat​es&id=182780​&t=1
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>
>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>
>>
>
> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>
Attachments

Re: [propel-dev] Powered by propel?

Reply

Author =?ISO-8859-1?Q?David_Z=FClke?= <dz at bitxtender dot com>
Full name =?ISO-8859-1?Q?David_Z=FClke?= <dz at bitxtender dot com>
Date 2007-02-17 09:14:53 PST
Message No, it's fine like this. As you pointed out, he's the copyright
owner, so the work is still protected (actually, it probably isn't,
since it's very likely that it, like many compositions of existing
works, lacks the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Threshold_of_originality). He created it for the specific purpose of
putting it up free for everyone on the website. Of course, Rob _can_
declare a license or any limitations regarding usage, like http://
smarty.php.net/copyright.php. This might actually be a good idea
since a smarty policy or a carefully chosen CC license could prevent
people from "selling" Propel for money, with the official logo, for
instance. I believe a CC-NonCommercial-ShareAlike license would be
possible because putting the logo on a website or into a product for
the purpose of linking to the Propel site or declaring that the
software is powered by Propel is not a commercial purpose in the same
sense as, say, using CC-NonCommercial-licensed icons in the UI of the
application (and that is what the "non-commercial" in such a CC
license is about), but my guess is that a laywer would have to decide
that, any we'll be just fine without a license ;)

David



Am 17.02.2007 um 03:01 schrieb Hans Lellelid:

> On second thought I don't think we need any sort of licensed
> release. Rob is copyright owner for the images; that seems fine by
> me. David may have some input on this issue, though, since I know
> he's been thinking about some of these issues w/ Agavi, Symfony, etc.
>
> Hans
>
> Hans Lellelid wrote:
>> I have no idea... David?
>> Cameron Brunner wrote:
>>> mwahahaha, me likey! :)
>>>
>>> hans: do we need an email from rob saying that he releases these
>>> under
>>> a blah license for us?
>>>
>>> On 2/17/07, Robert Bruce <rob@thirddimensi​ondesign.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Will this do?
>>>>
>>>> Hans Lellelid wrote:
>>>> Yeah -- I wasn't thinking we'd change the main site logo. Just
>>>> have the
>>>> "powered" button; sorry, I guess my note wasn't clear.
>>>>
>>>> ... I wish I still had the vector artwork ... I didn't design the
>>>> original logo & well ... it's a long story :)
>>>>
>>>> Hans
>>>>
>>>> David Zülke wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yay, having ze Propel logo in vector format would be ace. Let's
>>>> just not
>>>> change it, however. It's genuis. Only "problem" _might_ be the
>>>> lowercase
>>>> first p, should we decide to have some kind of "CI" in the long
>>>> term.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 16.02.2007 um 16:03 schrieb Hans Lellelid:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I think that's a great idea. I can create a page for that on the
>>>> wiki.
>>>>
>>>> I'd also be very willing to have anyone with some graphics
>>>> experience /
>>>> time on their hands to create a logo! (You'll get credit & tons of
>>>> appreciation, of course!) :)
>>>>
>>>> Hans
>>>>
>>>> Robert Bruce wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Our company uses propel, we wouldn't object at all. Our product
>>>> hasn't
>>>> been released yet, but it due to be soon.
>>>>
>>>> We've done some interesting stuff with using propel to obtain
>>>> Smarty
>>>> templates from the database, with some extra magic too.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, February 16, 2007 1:47 pm, Cameron Brunner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Was just curious if anyone objected to a page in trac dedicated to
>>>> sites/projects that are powered by propel (purely propel?
>>>> symfony as
>>>> well?) and/or companies that use propel? Perhaps even some general
>>>> reports from users on why they use it blahblah?
>>>>
>>>> Also has anyone got a nice little powered by propel logo?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Cameron Brunner
>>>>
>>>> Want a better web browser?
>>>> http://www.spreadfir​efox.com/?q=affiliat​es&id=182780​&t=1
>>>>
>>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
>>>> --
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
>>>> --
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
>>>> --
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
>>>> --
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
>>>> --
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​-------
>>>> --
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>
> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>
>

Re: [propel-dev] Powered by propel?

Reply

Author Cameron Brunner <cameron dot brunner at gmail dot com>
Full name Cameron Brunner <cameron dot brunner at gmail dot com>
Date 2007-02-16 18:39:56 PST
Message http://propel.phpdb.​org/trac/wiki/Propel​led

opinions? need more questions probably... also how will we sort sites
on the list?

On 2/17/07, Hans Lellelid <hans at velum dot net> wrote:
> On second thought I don't think we need any sort of licensed release.
> Rob is copyright owner for the images; that seems fine by me. David may
> have some input on this issue, though, since I know he's been thinking
> about some of these issues w/ Agavi, Symfony, etc.
>
> Hans
>
> Hans Lellelid wrote:
> > I have no idea... David?
> >
> >
> > Cameron Brunner wrote:
> >> mwahahaha, me likey! :)
> >>
> >> hans: do we need an email from rob saying that he releases these under
> >> a blah license for us?
> >>
> >> On 2/17/07, Robert Bruce <rob@thirddimensi​ondesign.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Will this do?
> >>>
> >>> Hans Lellelid wrote:
> >>> Yeah -- I wasn't thinking we'd change the main site logo. Just have the
> >>> "powered" button; sorry, I guess my note wasn't clear.
> >>>
> >>> ... I wish I still had the vector artwork ... I didn't design the
> >>> original logo & well ... it's a long story :)
> >>>
> >>> Hans
> >>>
> >>> David Zülke wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Yay, having ze Propel logo in vector format would be ace. Let's just
> >>> not
> >>> change it, however. It's genuis. Only "problem" _might_ be the lowercase
> >>> first p, should we decide to have some kind of "CI" in the long term.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>>
> >>> David
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Am 16.02.2007 um 16:03 schrieb Hans Lellelid:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> I think that's a great idea. I can create a page for that on the wiki.
> >>>
> >>> I'd also be very willing to have anyone with some graphics experience /
> >>> time on their hands to create a logo! (You'll get credit & tons of
> >>> appreciation, of course!) :)
> >>>
> >>> Hans
> >>>
> >>> Robert Bruce wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Our company uses propel, we wouldn't object at all. Our product hasn't
> >>> been released yet, but it due to be soon.
> >>>
> >>> We've done some interesting stuff with using propel to obtain Smarty
> >>> templates from the database, with some extra magic too.
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, February 16, 2007 1:47 pm, Cameron Brunner wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Was just curious if anyone objected to a page in trac dedicated to
> >>> sites/projects that are powered by propel (purely propel? symfony as
> >>> well?) and/or companies that use propel? Perhaps even some general
> >>> reports from users on why they use it blahblah?
> >>>
> >>> Also has anyone got a nice little powered by propel logo?
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Cameron Brunner
> >>>
> >>> Want a better web browser?
> >>> http://www.spreadfir​efox.com/?q=affiliat​es&id=182780​&t=1
> >>>
> >>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
> >
>
> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>
>


--
Cameron Brunner

Want a better web browser?
http://www.spreadfir​efox.com/?q=affiliat​es&id=182780​&t=1

Re: [propel-dev] Powered by propel?

Reply

Author hlellelid
Full name Hans Lellelid
Date 2007-02-16 18:01:04 PST
Message On second thought I don't think we need any sort of licensed release.
Rob is copyright owner for the images; that seems fine by me. David may
have some input on this issue, though, since I know he's been thinking
about some of these issues w/ Agavi, Symfony, etc.

Hans

Hans Lellelid wrote:
> I have no idea... David?
>
>
> Cameron Brunner wrote:
>> mwahahaha, me likey! :)
>>
>> hans: do we need an email from rob saying that he releases these under
>> a blah license for us?
>>
>> On 2/17/07, Robert Bruce <rob@thirddimensi​ondesign.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> Will this do?
>>>
>>> Hans Lellelid wrote:
>>> Yeah -- I wasn't thinking we'd change the main site logo. Just have the
>>> "powered" button; sorry, I guess my note wasn't clear.
>>>
>>> ... I wish I still had the vector artwork ... I didn't design the
>>> original logo & well ... it's a long story :)
>>>
>>> Hans
>>>
>>> David Zülke wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Yay, having ze Propel logo in vector format would be ace. Let's just
>>> not
>>> change it, however. It's genuis. Only "problem" _might_ be the lowercase
>>> first p, should we decide to have some kind of "CI" in the long term.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 16.02.2007 um 16:03 schrieb Hans Lellelid:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I think that's a great idea. I can create a page for that on the wiki.
>>>
>>> I'd also be very willing to have anyone with some graphics experience /
>>> time on their hands to create a logo! (You'll get credit & tons of
>>> appreciation, of course!) :)
>>>
>>> Hans
>>>
>>> Robert Bruce wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Our company uses propel, we wouldn't object at all. Our product hasn't
>>> been released yet, but it due to be soon.
>>>
>>> We've done some interesting stuff with using propel to obtain Smarty
>>> templates from the database, with some extra magic too.
>>>
>>> On Fri, February 16, 2007 1:47 pm, Cameron Brunner wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Was just curious if anyone objected to a page in trac dedicated to
>>> sites/projects that are powered by propel (purely propel? symfony as
>>> well?) and/or companies that use propel? Perhaps even some general
>>> reports from users on why they use it blahblah?
>>>
>>> Also has anyone got a nice little powered by propel logo?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Cameron Brunner
>>>
>>> Want a better web browser?
>>> http://www.spreadfir​efox.com/?q=affiliat​es&id=182780​&t=1
>>>
>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>

Re: [propel-dev] Powered by propel?

Reply

Author hlellelid
Full name Hans Lellelid
Date 2007-02-16 17:57:01 PST
Message I have no idea... David?


Cameron Brunner wrote:
> mwahahaha, me likey! :)
>
> hans: do we need an email from rob saying that he releases these under
> a blah license for us?
>
> On 2/17/07, Robert Bruce <rob@thirddimensi​ondesign.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> Will this do?
>>
>> Hans Lellelid wrote:
>> Yeah -- I wasn't thinking we'd change the main site logo. Just have the
>> "powered" button; sorry, I guess my note wasn't clear.
>>
>> ... I wish I still had the vector artwork ... I didn't design the
>> original logo & well ... it's a long story :)
>>
>> Hans
>>
>> David Zülke wrote:
>>
>>
>> Yay, having ze Propel logo in vector format would be ace. Let's just not
>> change it, however. It's genuis. Only "problem" _might_ be the lowercase
>> first p, should we decide to have some kind of "CI" in the long term.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>> Am 16.02.2007 um 16:03 schrieb Hans Lellelid:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I think that's a great idea. I can create a page for that on the wiki.
>>
>> I'd also be very willing to have anyone with some graphics experience /
>> time on their hands to create a logo! (You'll get credit & tons of
>> appreciation, of course!) :)
>>
>> Hans
>>
>> Robert Bruce wrote:
>>
>>
>> Our company uses propel, we wouldn't object at all. Our product hasn't
>> been released yet, but it due to be soon.
>>
>> We've done some interesting stuff with using propel to obtain Smarty
>> templates from the database, with some extra magic too.
>>
>> On Fri, February 16, 2007 1:47 pm, Cameron Brunner wrote:
>>
>>
>> Was just curious if anyone objected to a page in trac dedicated to
>> sites/projects that are powered by propel (purely propel? symfony as
>> well?) and/or companies that use propel? Perhaps even some general
>> reports from users on why they use it blahblah?
>>
>> Also has anyone got a nice little powered by propel logo?
>>
>> --
>> Cameron Brunner
>>
>> Want a better web browser?
>> http://www.spreadfir​efox.com/?q=affiliat​es&id=182780​&t=1
>>
>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>
>>
>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>
>>
>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [propel-dev] Powered by propel?

Reply

Author Cameron Brunner <cameron dot brunner at gmail dot com>
Full name Cameron Brunner <cameron dot brunner at gmail dot com>
Date 2007-02-16 17:18:24 PST
Message mwahahaha, me likey! :)

hans: do we need an email from rob saying that he releases these under
a blah license for us?

On 2/17/07, Robert Bruce <rob@thirddimensi​ondesign.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Will this do?
>
> Hans Lellelid wrote:
> Yeah -- I wasn't thinking we'd change the main site logo. Just have the
> "powered" button; sorry, I guess my note wasn't clear.
>
> ... I wish I still had the vector artwork ... I didn't design the
> original logo & well ... it's a long story :)
>
> Hans
>
> David Zülke wrote:
>
>
> Yay, having ze Propel logo in vector format would be ace. Let's just not
> change it, however. It's genuis. Only "problem" _might_ be the lowercase
> first p, should we decide to have some kind of "CI" in the long term.
>
> Cheers,
>
> David
>
>
> Am 16.02.2007 um 16:03 schrieb Hans Lellelid:
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I think that's a great idea. I can create a page for that on the wiki.
>
> I'd also be very willing to have anyone with some graphics experience /
> time on their hands to create a logo! (You'll get credit & tons of
> appreciation, of course!) :)
>
> Hans
>
> Robert Bruce wrote:
>
>
> Our company uses propel, we wouldn't object at all. Our product hasn't
> been released yet, but it due to be soon.
>
> We've done some interesting stuff with using propel to obtain Smarty
> templates from the database, with some extra magic too.
>
> On Fri, February 16, 2007 1:47 pm, Cameron Brunner wrote:
>
>
> Was just curious if anyone objected to a page in trac dedicated to
> sites/projects that are powered by propel (purely propel? symfony as
> well?) and/or companies that use propel? Perhaps even some general
> reports from users on why they use it blahblah?
>
> Also has anyone got a nice little powered by propel logo?
>
> --
> Cameron Brunner
>
> Want a better web browser?
> http://www.spreadfir​efox.com/?q=affiliat​es&id=182780​&t=1
>
> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>
>
>
> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>
>
> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>
>
>
> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>
>
> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>
>
>
> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>
>


--
Cameron Brunner

Want a better web browser?
http://www.spreadfir​efox.com/?q=affiliat​es&id=182780​&t=1

Re: [propel-dev] Powered by propel?

Reply

Author hlellelid
Full name Hans Lellelid
Date 2007-02-16 16:22:22 PST
Message I like these very much! Thanks for doing this!

I'll put these up on a new "propel powered" page this weekend, unless
anyone has any objections or Cameron beats me to it.

Hans

Robert Bruce wrote:
> Will this do?
>
> Hans Lellelid wrote:
>> Yeah -- I wasn't thinking we'd change the main site logo. Just have the
>> "powered" button; sorry, I guess my note wasn't clear.
>>
>> ... I wish I still had the vector artwork ... I didn't design the
>> original logo & well ... it's a long story :)
>>
>> Hans
>>
>> David Zülke wrote:
>>
>>> Yay, having ze Propel logo in vector format would be ace. Let's just not
>>> change it, however. It's genuis. Only "problem" _might_ be the lowercase
>>> first p, should we decide to have some kind of "CI" in the long term.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 16.02.2007 um 16:03 schrieb Hans Lellelid:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I think that's a great idea. I can create a page for that on the wiki.
>>>>
>>>> I'd also be very willing to have anyone with some graphics experience /
>>>> time on their hands to create a logo! (You'll get credit & tons of
>>>> appreciation, of course!) :)
>>>>
>>>> Hans
>>>>
>>>> Robert Bruce wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Our company uses propel, we wouldn't object at all. Our product hasn't
>>>>> been released yet, but it due to be soon.
>>>>>
>>>>> We've done some interesting stuff with using propel to obtain Smarty
>>>>> templates from the database, with some extra magic too.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, February 16, 2007 1:47 pm, Cameron Brunner wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Was just curious if anyone objected to a page in trac dedicated to
>>>>>> sites/projects that are powered by propel (purely propel? symfony as
>>>>>> well?) and/or companies that use propel? Perhaps even some general
>>>>>> reports from users on why they use it blahblah?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also has anyone got a nice little powered by propel logo?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Cameron Brunner
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Want a better web browser?
>>>>>> http://www.spreadfir​efox.com/?q=affiliat​es&id=182780​&t=1
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>
>>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
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Re: [propel-dev] Powered by propel?

Reply

Author Robert Bruce <rob at thirddimensiondesign dot co dot uk>
Full name Robert Bruce <rob at thirddimensiondesign dot co dot uk>
Date 2007-02-16 15:26:45 PST
Message Will this do?

Hans Lellelid wrote:
> Yeah -- I wasn't thinking we'd change the main site logo. Just have the
> "powered" button; sorry, I guess my note wasn't clear.
>
> ... I wish I still had the vector artwork ... I didn't design the
> original logo & well ... it's a long story :)
>
> Hans
>
> David Zülke wrote:
>
>> Yay, having ze Propel logo in vector format would be ace. Let's just not
>> change it, however. It's genuis. Only "problem" _might_ be the lowercase
>> first p, should we decide to have some kind of "CI" in the long term.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>> Am 16.02.2007 um 16:03 schrieb Hans Lellelid:
>>
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I think that's a great idea. I can create a page for that on the wiki.
>>>
>>> I'd also be very willing to have anyone with some graphics experience /
>>> time on their hands to create a logo! (You'll get credit & tons of
>>> appreciation, of course!) :)
>>>
>>> Hans
>>>
>>> Robert Bruce wrote:
>>>
>>>> Our company uses propel, we wouldn't object at all. Our product hasn't
>>>> been released yet, but it due to be soon.
>>>>
>>>> We've done some interesting stuff with using propel to obtain Smarty
>>>> templates from the database, with some extra magic too.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, February 16, 2007 1:47 pm, Cameron Brunner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Was just curious if anyone objected to a page in trac dedicated to
>>>>> sites/projects that are powered by propel (purely propel? symfony as
>>>>> well?) and/or companies that use propel? Perhaps even some general
>>>>> reports from users on why they use it blahblah?
>>>>>
>>>>> Also has anyone got a nice little powered by propel logo?
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Cameron Brunner
>>>>>
>>>>> Want a better web browser?
>>>>> http://www.spreadfir​efox.com/?q=affiliat​es&id=182780​&t=1
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>>
>>
>
> --------------------​--------------------​--------------------​---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@prop​el.tigris.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help at propel dot tigris dot org
>
>
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